This month, more than a dozen former Trump staffers went on the record to say that everyone should heed the warning that Donald Trump is a fascist and would rule as a dictator.
FILE - President Donald Trump listens to White House Chief of Staff John Kelly, right, in the Oval Office of the White House in Washington, Oct. 10, 2018.
Kelly and Milley's statements are only the beginning of an historically unprecedented series of warnings being issued to the American people. And they're not coming from television pundits or social media click baiters or Democratic operatives. The warnings are coming from people who worked directly with Donald Trump in his administration.
JENNISON: That's a great question. First of all, I signed the letter because as a military officer, I'm also an attorney. He said that Mattis was very limited on his opinion of when the military, especially the National Guard, should be used in civilian situations, and that it should only be used when requested to do so by state governors, and that he firmly believed that militarizing a response to protests would destroy the rapport that we as military members have with the American people.
JENNISON: I would also say that despite the NSC's strong opposition, the former president's close advisers made the decision to hover National Guard medevac helicopters over protesters in downtown Washington D.C. Following the murder of George Floyd. As a career military aviator, in my opinion, this was extremely reckless.
JENNISON: I fear that the decisions that he made were self-serving. I fear that like the example I provided with Crimson Contagion, we were confronted with concrete evidence that we had significant work to do to be prepared for a pandemic, which, as we saw, had devastating effects on our country and our economy, and the president made a conscious decision to prioritize election security in 2020.
And I fear that without great men like Mattis, Milley, Kelly, reigning him in, he's just become worse.CHAKRABARTI: Elizabeth, again, thank you for listening to Lieutenant Colonel Jennison along with me. I have the same question for you. Lots of people in the media talk around what Donald Trump says in public, in the inflammatory things, which a lot of that language is overtly authoritarian.
And so there was this learning curve for Trump to discover that actually, no, we have this constitutional system and their checks and balances. And yes, Congress has a say, and the courts have a say. And just because you want to do something, doesn't mean that you're allowed to do it. You have to be authorized by law.
He at this point had moved Kelly from the Department of Homeland Security to be his chief of staff, but he was starting to get frustrated with Kelly. He would eventually push Kelly out in 2019. A number of Homeland Security officials start getting fired in 2019, because in Trump's perception, they just kept saying no too frequently to what he wanted to do.
And in order to do that work, you're collecting data from 180 countries across the world. We had to work with the lawyers, because the lawyers were quite convinced that we would be back in front of the Supreme Court at some point. So we needed to make sure the process was rigorous and defensible and based on logic, not based on a religious test the way the original the original version of the ban was signed in 2017.
I think we need to relook at our methodology, and they were like, we'll just tell you the countries that need to be on the list. We're like no, you can't. You can't do it that way. We have to be driven by the data. But it really led you to realize no, they know who they want to ban. And so he will follow up and ask questions about things that he perceives to be his brand, or if he's getting bad press on a topic, he'll dig in. But most, for the most part he actually doesn't care, right? It's the people around him that are the ideologues that have a very specific vision they want to implement.
The argument was we don't have the infrastructure or the operational processes in place to do this well. And sure enough, even when this order got signed, it ended up the Department of Justice signed something and made it happen, de facto. There weren't processes in place. NEUMANN: Yeah, so there's this longstanding principle, and the Lieutenant Colonel will know this, when you're White House staff, you do not dictate agency operations, because that is a violation of the constitutional structure.
He would basically come up with what he perceived to be the campaign plan for various aspects of immigration policy. And I think in a second term, he won't even have to, it won't even be like a violation of the campaign command and control he'll just be in charge, right? He will probably be the Secretary of Homeland Security or some role like that, and he'll just be able to give those orders directly.
And say your services are no longer necessary. Probably the most prominent case of this was then Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, Ukrainian American who spoke out about a call to President Vladimir Zelenskyy, was escorted off the complex because of his role and what he thought was right.
Or a dictator, and we don't take an oath to a wannabe dictator. We don't take an oath to an individual. We take an oath to the Constitution, and we take an oath to the idea that it's America, and we're willing to die to protect it.When you hear General Milley say that with that passion, what does that engender in you?
OLIVIA TROYE: People in the meeting, would obviously, it's the president of the United States, they would be respectful, and they would say Mr. President, that is not an appropriate use of the military. Or when he was wanting to invoke the Insurrection Act, which he has said he will do.
CHAKRABARTI: Also concerning, Olivia says, is Donald Trump's talk about the United States military. Now, Elizabeth Neumann and Lieutenant Colonel Peter Jennison have both mentioned their concerns about when Trump says he wants to use the military within the United States and against Americans.
TROYE: This isn't hyperbole. And so when Donald Trump says things like this, he will absolutely do it, because we saw him try to do these things the first time around. You give me your definition of what that danger is. What would you say to people to make them listen? CHAKRABARTI: Do you mind if I just jump in here for a second, and forgive me for interrupting, but as you're describing those things specifically, I'm reminded of all the things that I've heard Trump's most passionate supporters, voters, say that's exactly what they want. They don't mind.NEUMANN: And this is where I would push back. I absolutely want our border to be secure. And I am not happy with the state of things.
And he's not just talking about Antifa, like some people are trying to say, Oh, he's just talking about the far left. We're gonna clean up our streets. No, he's talking about political enemies. He's talking about anybody that publicly disagrees. I think we're likely to see people practicing their First Amendment rights in protest.
If he goes back to the White House, because he has been saying that clearly on the campaign trail, but within what Elizabeth said, I'm also reminded that during the Trump administration there were strong institutions of American democracy that held fast, right? Even on January 6th, members of the Capitol Police, Vice President Mike Pence, the Congress itself, when it finally came back into session, completing its constitutional duty regarding certifying electoral college votes, that...
I was on a plane once to a major disaster area with a very respected senior official who asked me the question. Why do they respect you? Why don't they respect me? And I said sir, it's because I don't have an opinion. We are a tool that is to be used in a very limited capacity. And that capacity stops short at serving the American people as a whole.
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