Will Donovan Mitchell and J.B. Bickerstaff be back? LeBron’s Game 4 message; Emmanuel Clase’s best pitch: Ter

In this week's episode, Terry Pluto and host David Campbell get into what the Cavs vs. Celtics series means for Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland and coach J.B. Bickerstaff. We also break down why Guardians reliever Emmanuel Clase is so much more effective this season than in 2023. And more listener baseball stories.

Will Donovan Mitchell and J.B. Bickerstaff be back? LeBron’s Game 4 message; Emmanuel Clase’s best pitch: Terry’s Talkin’ podcastlost Game 4 of their Eastern Conference semifinal series vs. the Celtics.

We discuss what the series means for Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland and coach J.B. Bickerstaff.are trying to cause on the basepaths. Terry also checks out some of the prospects in Triple-A at Columbus who might be worth keeping an eye on; and we break down why Guardians reliever Emmanuel Clase is so much more effective this season than in 2023.Time for Cavs fans to panic? It's getting close as Game 4 looms. But don't despair – Terry PlutoWith the NFL schedule release set for Wednesday, Terry talks about which Browns games he’s most excited to see in the fall. Terry has asked fans to send in stories of when and how they got a foul ball at a baseball game. We read a couple more of those. You can email your foul ball story, along with any other comments or questions you may have, toWhat these playoffs have done for Darius GarlandThe refs and whether the Cavs got what they deserved;Why the Guardians love creating chaos;and our listener letters about catching foul balls, and other adventures at the ballpark. A full transcript of the podcast is below. As it is computer-generated, it will contain many spelling and grammar errors.I think we talked to Jerry Judy last week because there’s something new you wanted to get into with him.No, then if we did, then I don’t remember what I talked in anyway. No, it’s nothing at all, really.Yep. All right. Here we go. did you have a book this week? Okay. And did you want to talk about graduation speeches?Hey, welcome to this week’s edition of the Terry’s Talkin’ Podcast. It’s David Campbell, your host, and I’m joined by Terry Pluto, award -winning columnist from the Plain Dealer in Cleveland .com. Long time no see, Terry. It’s been about 16 hours, I think, since we saw each other at game four last night. So, hey, we got a lot to get into today. I know we want to start with the Cavs since they’re in the midst of the heat of the playoffs here. We’ve got some Guardians we want to get into, the Browns. We’ll find out.Well, they already know, but Browns fans will find out their full schedule tomorrow night. On Wednesday, we’re taping this late Tuesday afternoon. We got some more foul ball stories from listeners. So a lot of fun stuff to get into today, Terry. What’s going on?Well, plenty going on with that. And I just, I really wanted the Cavs to win that game Monday night just because the underdog in me really came out and especially when they came out determined to, you know, to put on a really good show. And I mean that in the best way, didn’t not just fold it because I have seen teams like that where the star is out and, maybe they, I remember Lenny Wilkins used to call it the adrenaline rush or the adrenaline wave where they come out and they play fairly well for a while. Then the other team says, okay, game over and the stars take over and that’s it. But that was not the case. It looked like a couple of times during that game that the Cals were just gonna give it up, but they didn’t. And I can’t remember the last time that I went after officials or whatever, but I thought that...the adrenaline wave, where they come out and they put a friend on the line for a while. And then the other team, because I can, game over in a star -stakeover and that’s it. But that wasn’t the case. We had several times during that game that the Cavs were just gonna give it up. But we didn’t, and, I think we remember the last time that I went after officials or whatever. But I brought back, the things that were being said even before J .B. Bickert’s out seven.the things that were being said even before JB Bickersoff said them were true. I thought the officials were terrible and I thought the cows were going to the rim and going to the rim a lot. And then when I saw the points in the paint that the calves had 42 points in the paint versus 38 from Boston. Oftentimes you’ll hear a coach say, well, they took 28 free throws and we took nine. So that’s the discrepancy. But then you turn around and you look at points in the paint, which is a sign of, did you go to the rim or just fire jump shots?I thought the officials would have her home. I thought the guys were going to the rim. And, you know, when I saw the points in the pin, you got the guys at 42 points in the pin versus 38 from Boston. Oftentimes, you know, you’re a coach that, well, they took 28 straight throws and we took nine. So that’s a discrepancy. But then you turn around and you have the points in the pin, which is a sign that you go to the rim and do some harder jump shots. And you see the team that got the 28.And you see the team that got the 28 free throws, you know, scored like 40 some points in the paint and the team that got nine had 14. It’s like, well, you know why you didn’t go the line is because you didn’t do anything to get fouled. Yeah. Where the calves I thought were get mobile. Yeah. That was getting mauled and they hardly called anything. And, I mean, seven was a set 24 free throws to seven. It was, it was really bad. And you know, it did make a difference in that game. It really did.So I haven’t had a chance to go back and rewatch the game. I mean, we were both there last night, but you can’t tell there’s a, just a mishmash of bodies under the basket. You don’t know who’s hacking who and who’s not. So like, I want to go back and watch that, but almost as interesting to me is the, as the officiating itself was like how teams talk about it after. And I was.You know, we’ve been talking a lot about JB Bickerstaff and I know you’ve gotten a lot of emails from fans saying like, we need to let this guy go and all this stuff. But last night, I mean, think about it, Terry, in the span of a week and a half, the Cavs went from being booed on their home court in the first half of game seven to last night where they practically got a standing ovation because they were so shorthanded and gave so much last night that after the game, I thought JB handled it just about right. Like he gave his team a lot of credit.for laying it all on the line. And he says that those guys gave him everything they had. But also he said that they, just what you said, we deserved better last night. And I’m curious what the league is going to say if anything, but he stood up for his team, but didn’t lash out at the refs. He just said, we deserved better, which I thought was a good way to handle it. And then it was interesting. Dan Gilbert, I actually saw Dan Gilbert arrived to the game last night and Dan doesn’t tweet a lot, but he did last night and he’s like,He basically said, hey, great job by everybody tonight, way to bring it. And, you know, in the NBA to win, you have to go, you have to work hard 24 seven, if you know what I mean, which was a little jab at the free throw thing. Yeah. So I thought it was interesting. Like I thought JB stood up for his team last night in an appropriate way that the players will respect. And then, and then Darius Garland said, listen, we deserve more. And.He was kind of Chris Fedor, our colleague, our outstanding Cavs writer said like, Hey, what did you think of the officiating? And Darius Garland said, I would say what I really think Chris, but I’m going to have to ask you for the 25 grand out of your bank account. So I, it was really interesting last night to see everybody in the Cavs organization. Number one, acknowledge what those guys did last night in terms of giving it everything they had. And number two, like complaining about the officiating in a way that would unify the team and the fans. But.you know, do it in a way that you’re not going to have the whole team find and reprimand and whatnot. So what did you think of all that?And I mean, well, that was good. And I also thought the officials left the door open. There was all that confusion of when, Jalen Brown grabbed Struz by the foot. They couldn’t decide what the heck to call it. I kept having confabs. They ended up finally with, I guess, letting away from the ball foul one, one free throw. It was just odd. And so, and the other thing where,into a family with I guess a lady from the Blumfile, one of the ladies there, and it was just fine. And so, and one of them...Merrill got blasted right at the end of the third quarter. That was so blatant because that, you know, that was right out in the middle of the floor and they don’t even see that.So I wanted to ask you about this Terry that there’s an old basketball adage that hand is part of the ball right and I couldn’t tell when when Merrill was following through if it was just hand -to -hand contact or if you thought it was worse than that it looked hand -to -hand to me but I don’t know what did you think of that?There’s also when you come down, is your defender under you? Remember that rule? And I thought he was. Yeah, they changed that a couple. Absolutely. Because they want to stop these guys from the same way the shooter kicking out, you know, to get an offensive foul. They also don’t want the defender closing in so close that when Kawhi Leonard was the one that came down on, I forgot his foot it was.Nice front. The same way that you see them kicking out, you know, to get an offensive foul, the answer to that one is that the defender clubs the inside close. The corner line -up was the one that came out on that, and that was good for us. And ended up with a really bad spring ankle and not much of a real change because these guys were getting under them, under the shooter. So I think I’m finished now.and ended up with a really bad sprained ankle and that led to the rule change because these guys were getting under them, under the shooter. So yeah, I thought the whole thing was bad. And on the TV broadcast, I did check and they thought it was a foul also. So anyway, three foul shots right at the end of the quarter. So those are things there. It was fascinating to me to watch Garland evolve over the course of the game.And on the TV broadcast, they did track them. They thought it was a fall, so. So, he was out -tracked, and he came on the court. So, lots of things there. It was fascinating to me when it’s the final, when it’s the course of the game. The first quarter, he did nothing. And then he ends up with 30, a 13 points in the fourth quarter. We didn’t, a couple of times he had a sort of burbling for oblivion that he does, but it wasn’t his...The first quarter was like he did nothing and he ends up with 30 at 13 points in the fourth quarter. And he didn’t, a couple of times he had a sort of dribbling into oblivion that he does, but it wasn’t as egregious as normal. And he had the ball more and he only had two turnovers and they came at him. They try to force him. Now defensively he’s weak and they go at Garland quite a bit, but that’s been the case since he came in the league.So Terry, let’s talk about Darius Garland for a second. With Donovan Mitchell out last night with that calf injury, Garland ended up 40 minutes, 30 points, 12 of 27 from the field, 4 of 13 on three pointers. Seven assists, two turnovers. And I was looking at his shot chart. I was really interested, Terry, because we’ve been, I think you were theorizing a month or so ago that we have not seen him go into the lane as much as we did before. And it’s really funny how your mind works, but I was looking, when you watched Darius Garland last night, he looks like he’s been beaten up and he’s in the middle of a battle. Like he, you can see the strain in his face. And I was just thinking like a couple of years ago when the Ulster game was in Cleveland.He’s an All -Star, he’s out there with Evan Mobley and Jared Allen and they’re representing the Cavs in the All -Star. He was just like happy -go -lucky and to see him going through this playoff battle, I think this is the kind of stuff that going through this series is gonna change him for the better in a lot of ways. I’m just wondering what you think of that in terms of his growth as a player, being a go -to guy, realizing you gotta pay the price in the playoffs. I mean, I’m gonna hold up the shot charts so our listeners can see it. But.You know, his half of his shots last night, 14 of his shots of his 27 shots were either in the lane or like right next to the lane last night. The other 13 were from pretty much three point range. But I thought that was an interesting adjustment that he’s made. He’s like, listen, it’s the playoffs. I got to go to the basket. I got to get in there and make things happen. But what are you seeing from Darius Garland? Have you noticed any kind of a change in him?I still think he’s pretty erratic. I really do. And he’s, I’m looking at his stats for the playoffs. The shooting stats are better than I thought. Actually, Mike, it went a few bucks off of people. He is their best three point shooter in the playoffs, 37%. Shooting 45 from the field, which is solid too. I think that, you know, he,I think that even as a film director, Jonas does, I find it 2 .3 % variance. I think the problem is when you add some of this stuff in so clearly that it’s just a distinction in your brain, you still remember about the future of that backward.Even as, even as turnovers aren’t as bad as I thought 2 .3 per game. So I think the problem is when he, when he, when he does some of this stuff is so glaringly bad, it sticks in, it sticks in your brain. I still wonder about the future of that back court with Garland and, and Donovan. Of course, Donovan leaves and that takes care of that. Although, you know, Donovan leaves, you know, you would probably make a trade and who do you get back?with and then of course it got a raise and it just fell out. Although, you know, down the lanes, you know, you were trying to make a trade and where do you get that? So, I wish he was learning how to flip off the ball more, but maybe that’s not him. And perhaps that’s why as that table went on, we’re all in the same situation. But he came out of the box and got better.So I wish he would learn how to play off the ball more, but maybe that’s not just not him. And perhaps that’s why as that game went on where the ball was in his hand so often, he became more confident and got better. I feel like I’m talking, I feel like I’m almost talking like he, when he’s dribbling around through the lane and then comes back out, he’s not really sure where he wants to go with this. I guess what I’m saying when I, what, how I feel about Garland is, I’m still lacking confidence in him.I can’t think of anything. I thought the moment he was talking to me, when he’s dribbling around through the lane and he comes back out, he’s not really sure where he wants to go with this. I guess where I’m saying what an auditor like Darwin is, I’m still thinking about him a lot. I really am. I think he is learning something about destaking the beating and the toughness and the broken jaw and all these things. But if you look at his career, it is split with significant injuries. Even going back to when...I really am. I think he is learning some about he’s taking a beating and the toughness and the, you know, the broken jaw and all these things. But if you look at his career, it is spotted with significant injuries. You know, even going back to when he had a knee problem when he was drafted, he played only four and a half games at Vanderbilt. In fact, he got hurt against Kent State. Then the Cavs drafted him.And it turned out they had to go back into that knee again when it was arthroscopic surgery. So then he had his second knee surgery really before his rookie year, which was kind of a loss year. He wasn’t very good. And then, you know, we had the broken jaw and I know I’m forgetting some other things. didn’t you get, it kept getting hit in the eye a couple of years ago. Remember that? And so he’s, he’s taken a physical beating for on a very thin frame. And I remember that was one of the things.And I remember that was one of the things that the executive committee that got us out there and we said, we can lock them and said, but man, these, these are easy to fire. These fire. And we were lucky to see how that, it still goes up. So, back to the right, and these are the maximum contracts. So it’s not going to be easy to get an easier trade. My office is going to be easier to trade in if that’s the case. So, I believe that this is the most bullish on MNUR, I can put it that way.NBA executive told me when the Cavs drafted him, he goes, we kind of liked him. He said, but man, he’s, he’s, you use the word frail, he’s frail. And you know, we’ll have to see how that his skill holds up. So, that’s where they’re at in the, and he is on a maximum contract. So it’s not going to be fancy, easy to trade them. I don’t think it’s going to be easy to trade them if that’s, that’s the case. So I, I, maybe I’m just, I’m just less bullish on him than you are, I think right now.Well, I’m not saying I’m bullish on him. I’m just saying like it’s interesting to see. We’ve talked about how young this team has been over the last couple of years, and there’s, there’s not really a way to measure playoff pedigree. And I’m just trying to notice little things that I’m seeing in terms of how this team is growing and maturing. And I’m seeing a little bit of maturation from Darius Garland’s game and his approach to.every playoff game. Like he’s starting to get it a little bit. And I’m not saying he’s going to be Allen Iverson or anything like that. I’m just saying that like you’re seeing a young player kind of start to get it a little bit in this series. That’s what I’m seeing. Maybe I’m maybe I’m wrong. I don’t know.Well, well, the big thing too, what I will say this about the Cavs in general is I think they have shaken off quite a bit of the gloom and doom from New York in the playoffs a year ago. Now, yes, they had some games where they were blown out. I mean, still remarkable. They lost those two games in Orlando by a grand total of 61 points. and, but now you, then you turn around and if you go back to that, where you talk about some playoff toughness, so they won their first two at home, then it was.What was your dream of doing from New York in the last year? Definitely. Yes, it was a dream. I mean, still remarkable. There was those two games in Portland that I could only tell you about 61 points. And I think that’s the best I could do.and he came from us and put on surface, so they went in for a few of them, and then he was in 51 points. Then he came on from 85 and at 30, and he was up there, and he was in the 5, here it is, you know, the first round out of there, where they found a way to take it to 70 and win. And then he was on the field, and at the end of the first round, it was almost a lot there. You find 30 hours after a 7 -game series.two by 61 points, then they come home from game five and Jared Allen is out. He’s your best player. And you’re thinking, here it is, you know, first round out of there. Well, they found a way to take it to seven and win. And then they go to Boston, you know, they get hammered in the first game, which that was almost a lock there. You’re playing 48 hours after a seven game series. Then they win big in the second game.The third game was kind of weird, you know, they lost it. And then they gave arguably, given the roster and the four, their best performance, the entire playoffs in game four against Boston. So that’s a big change and that is growth from the New York series. And if I were evaluating JB, that’s one of the things I would take into big consideration.All right, maybe this is a good time to talk about JB for a minute, Terry. You know, at the start of the playoffs, the Cavs had this not tough narrative. And so now,We’re taping this on Tuesday. Game five is going to be tomorrow night. This thing could be over pretty quickly given that the Cavs are so shorthanded. What has changed in terms of the way you view JB and do you think it’s enough where he’s going to be the coach next season?Well, I’ve liked him for quite a while. I’ve stayed that way. That doesn’t mean everything I like. He does. I like about him, but just overall, and one of the things that I’ve liked about him is that they’ve stayed pretty resilient. And to me, since he took the job, the really only negative mark on him was the Nick series. You know, there are other things you could disagree with, but that was, that was a negative where he just could not seem to, make any adjustments to the Knicks or anything like that. All right.But here’s this, if you don’t want JB, you have to hire someone. That is it. Okay, here are some available names. Let’s see how high you wanna jump for these guys. Terry Stotz, Kenny Atkinson, Nate McMillan, Dwayne Casey, Dave Yeager, Luke Walton, Greg Buckner, JJ Radek, I’m sure I’m forgetting somebody. And I don’t wanna hear Stan Van Gundy or somebody.What is that? Okay, here are some available names. Meanwhile, let’s see how I’m gonna find out what I’m gonna do for these guys. Tony Stutz, Penny Atkinson, Nate McMahan. Blind Faces, Lady Linger, Root Mountain, Greg Backmore, David Raddick, I’m sure some of you have heard of them. I’m not the one who you’re, you know, standing on garbage. It’s not that I’m about to go to the great fetch. You know, these are guys that have recently been echoed as really, you know, there’s all these, these assistants who, you know, who want to support everyone around them. But...Let’s not bring back the ghost of Bill Fitch. You know, these are guys that had recently been head coaches in the league. Now there’s always these assistants who, you know, who knows if they’re any good or not, but you look at that list and you say, well, are any of those guys Terry Stoss? I kind of like Kenny Atkinson and Nate McMillan a little bit. Dwayne Casey I used to like, but I wonder about the age with him.You look at that, Lance, and you say, well, any of those guys, Terry Stoss, I kind of like Kenny Atkins, and I may name my father a little bit. William Casey, I used to like, but I wonder about the age with him. I didn’t know who he was until I was 17, and I was particularly glad when he was old enough to suffer that much. You know, just, so you say, I have no jib to be go to. I was thinking, and I wrote about this in my scribbles for the rest of my life, and now I’m talking to you.I didn’t think Luke Walton was on their staff now was particularly good when he was a head coach in Sacramento. you know, just, so if you say, all right, no JB then to who do you go to? I was talking to, and I wrote about this for my scribbles for Wednesday morning. I was talking to an executive from an MBA team and he likes JB. It was just kind of a, this was a yesterday before the game. we were not from.executive from the OK. And he likes the idea of this, this is an idea after the game, which we are not from, we are a bit of a different executive, of course. And he said, boy, it’s something you gotta evaluate, because the thing is, he had a show at the playhouse, he never had a playoff. Now, he’s been in bad situations in our college, but still, it’s something he looked at, and so he probably picked that.here, but another executive elsewhere and He said boy it’s tough when you’re going to evaluate the final thing because the thing on JB had a show he could win the playoffs He’d never won a playoff round now. He’d been a bad situations interim coach, but still it’s something you look at he said as you try to take the next step and Now you’re going out there. You don’t have Alan now. You don’t have Donovan eitherAnd now you’re going out there, you don’t have a lot of money either. And I just think, well the one thing I would work out if you look at the kid going out by 30 points the last two days, he stands with like, he wanted to go home. But that’s part of where I would be concerned, because I always thought that was one of the things that A .D.’s been able to do, is to keep the drama down, and just to keep the spirits up after things collapse. And that came into play last night, we’ll see when they play on Wednesday.And I just said, well, the one thing I would look at if he would get, if he get blown out by 30 points, the last two games, these guys look like they want to go home. Then that’s part of where I would be concerned. Cause I always thought that was one of the things that JB has been able to do. He keeps the drama down and tends to keep their spirits up after things collapse. and that came into play last night and we’ll see when they play on Wednesday, if it still is. so, but I thought that was an interesting.Yeah, good luck with that and it does say you know it comes down to two things and I have no inside information on any of this but Part one is like is the team playing for the guy and all you have to do is look at last night and the answer is yes?mentioned there he said you you’re trying to evaluate this guy in the playoffs against the NBA’s best team without his two best players.And then the second part of it is he putting the guys he has in a position to succeed during the playoffs. And I don’t know enough about basketball to say yes or no on that. I think that’s a decision the Cavs will be making in terms of X’s and O’s and what they’re running. But, I think you’re right. I think the fact that Mitchell’s been out, Alan’s been out, Dean Wade, not Dean Wade. We can talk about Dean Wade in a minute, but I wonder what a healthy Dean Wade would have done here in this series so far if they had had him the whole time, but. I think you’re right. I think we’re probably going to see JB back next year. And I think it’s a lot of what you just talked about that he didn’t get a full swing at the, at the ball this time. And I think they’re going to bring it back. It’s just a gut feeling. I have no insight information.I actually don’t, I don’t know David, I really don’t. I don’t know what they’re thinking on there, because you know any president GM has to have your short list of guys. If the old, you know, if aliens abducted your coach tomorrow, who would you hire? And it has to be people that are available, you know, that’s the key part. And...Frank Vogel is another guy who’s out there that I think would be on the list. Yeah, the sun inspired him.It’s just not a real strong field. Cause like you look, the Lakers are like talking about JJ Reddick, you know, to coach and Washington is looking for somebody to coach. And, there probably may be another team or somebody that gets fired. So fired their guy. Vogel’s another guy. Yeah. Yeah. You could, you know, and I kind of wonder. about Frank where, you know, you won a title in LA, lasted a couple of years. The Suns, what’s he wanna done with the Suns? I don’t know what the Suns are doing. Probably on this list, he might go to the, I like Nate McMillan too, but I have to be careful that some of these guys like Nate McMillan and Dwayne Casey, they’re getting older. And I don’t mean just, look, I’m 68, so I’m allowed to say that. You’re getting older and you don’t have to see, are they the energy level?It does feel like the... I might think of more too, but I have to be careful that some of these guys I think that go on adjoining cases, they’re getting wilder. I don’t mean just... I’m 68, so I’m gonna have to say that. But getting older, and I have to say, I’m at the energy level, the keeping up with the games going, those are things that I have to look at.the are they keeping up with where the game’s going those are things that i’d have to look at so you know i mean volga would be mildly interesting but the problem is there’s nobody there like a couple years ago now he had a rough year with detroit but i really liked monty williams i mean if i were a year ago i would have hired him fast it just shows you how messed up by the way detroit is that you know monty’s having a rough time there so those are things you you do need to askYou know, I mean, Red Bull would be mindfully interesting. But the problem is, there’s something that I took a few years ago, now I even have a rough year with Detroit. What I really like about Detroit is that the years I went to Hollywood came fast. The issues that I messed up out of with Detroit is that, you know, my mom is having a rough time there. So those are things you do need to ask. It’s not, they’ll be then who?If not, JB, then who? Cause I always thought it was unfair almost at anything in like, if you don’t like this person, well, are you comparing it to actually somebody else or just some idyllic standard that you have in your head?Yeah. Yeah. Well, you have to, I mean, afterwards they need to do that right away. You know, if the series is over, if you’re going to move on, then you need to move on from JB. If not, you need to come out and come out strong for him. One, that’s what they need to do. We’ll see what they do. A couple of things you mentioned, Dean Wade, it’s pretty remarkable. The only guy with the last two games with a...They do the plus minus thing on the fourth Dean Wade. He’s a plus 14 in 42 minutes, even though I think he scored like seven points or something. Chris Fetor had a stat that when he was covering Jason Tatum, Tatum was one of seven and he’s playing on a knee that probably needs surgery. The only problem with the Dean White is a little like Darius and that can this guy stay healthy? I mean, that’s a, that’s a big deal there, but you know, he.I think that’s a big deal there. He’s surprisingly athletic in terms of being able to move sideways. A lot of times...He’s surprisingly athletic in terms of being able to move sideways. A lot of times, guys are fast running in a straight line, but the ability in basketball to defend is to move laterally. It’s the same thing in rebounding. You could be told, why do some of these guys who are 6 ‘6″, 6 ‘7″, 6 ‘5″, even, they’re such good rebounders. I mean, not only they actually block out, which is rare in the NBA, they have great lateral movement.guys are fast running in the straight line, but the ability in basketball to defend this, to move around with it, it’s the same thing in rebounds. You could be telling that, you know, why did some of these guys were 6 ‘6″, 6 ‘7″, 6 ‘5″, even, they’re just good rebounders, and you don’t really want to back out, which is, you know, in great order of movement. Charles Barkley was phenomenal at that, also because he was strong. When you want to move, I mean, you just, you know, you can go aboutCharles Barkley was phenomenal at that. They always said, cause he was strong, but if you watch to move, I mean, he just could, you know, he could go to 12 to 18 inches, like with real quick as that ball goes off the rim, he’s reading it and getting it. So, Dennis Robyn, that’s what made him a great rebounder, Horace Grant. so that those are, those are things that, and Wade has some of that, not so much in rebounding, but it helps them defend people. Wade on the perimeter.All right, Terry I don’t think we can move on from the calves without talking about Donovan Mitchell and Jimmy Watkins our colleague who we saw last night at the gamewrote this morning about is this the last home game we’re going to see Donovan Mitchell in a Cavs uniform? And Jimmy’s point is if Donovan leaves, like last night was a glimmer of hope for Cavs fans to see the young foundation that’s there and that it could work somehow with some other pieces mixed in. But did you have any thoughts on what this means for Donovan Mitchell, what it should mean? It’s so hard to say at this point.Yeah, it is. And I think, right. Yeah. Let’s, let’s, let’s, you know, let’s save the whole bigger thing for another podcast on that. But in terms of it could be as last one, but I don’t think it’s a given. I didn’t hear it, but, I forgot which he has been talking head was my, my friend Amanda, a Brin, Robinowitz who does, I do NPR commentaries every week for ideas, ideas stream. She was just furious because I guess on one of the shows this week, she watches, she loves basketball watches. She goes, well, Donovan Mitchell just deserves to be in New York. He should be in New York. He’s entitled to New York. I’m like, why? And there’s a lot of great players all over the NBA.Mr. This deserves to be in New York. He deserves to be in New York. He’s entitled to New York.because New York is the basketball mecca of the world and they’re entitled to have him, that’s why. Yeah.Well, these guy yeah, right exactly because it’s New York and you should go to New York and you I mean I mean fine You know and Donovan could want to go to New York Of course he wanted to go to New York two years ago when Utah mentioned to him that they’re gonna put him and Rudy go bear on the market they’re gonna go and get draft picks and go younger and He let his agent let them know he’d prefer to go to New York They talked to the Knicks and traded him to Cleveland. So there I mean that’s that’s how it goes because the Utah Jazz don’t work for Donovan Mitchell And neither do the Cleveland Cavaliers. You know, it will be Kobe Altman’s best. he’ll have to find the best deal, but in the meantime, you should try. And I think he will try really hard to keep Donovan. So let’s just see. But I guess the fact that a player wants to go to a certain place doesn’t necessarily mean he gets to go there or that because it’s New York that they are entitled to whatever player they want.you know, it was best, you know, we have to find the best deal. In the meantime, we should probably, like, if we will try really hard to keep out of it. So it’s just, I guess the fact that a player wants to go to a certain place doesn’t necessarily mean he gets to do that. Or that... I guess yeah, I guess the question I should have asked you Terry is let’s say you’re Donovan Mitchell. Have you seen enough fromYou know, that’s like the Yankees should get anybody they want. It’s funny, even as much as our country is growing and that there’s still this New York centered attitude that drives a lot of the media. And I would just tell the fans, tell them to shut up. So what? So you want to go to New York? Fine.You know, the season might be over tomorrow night. Have you seen enough of this Cavs roster and culture and coaching staff to make you want to sign an extension this off season?And I guess the other thing, if you’re down on a Mitchell in the same way, I say, if not JB who? Remember, it’s not your purpose. The Knicks are a salary cap mess. What they can do, trade Brunson for Mitchell? I mean, you know, yeah, I guess what you could do is you can, you could force a trade. You go somewhere for a year, then you become a free agent. Do you want to do that after missing, I believe it was 24 or 28 games with the knee problem, and now you have a calf injury.Do you want to run or do you think, you know, $200 million is $200 million. I’d probably take the money. I’m serious, you know, if I like it. Because I know I could end up somewhere I don’t particularly want to go and it depends on your body and where you are physically. It’s just like we talk on this show all the time about pitchers turning down these big extensions and they get hurt. Well, there are several basketball players who’ve turned down in a...about the lawyers who’ve turned down and I’m going with my brain this is like that. North’s called this one that turned down an extension. You know that huge blue eyes to North’s end up going by a one -year contract, end up out of the week, lost in and out of the week. You know, you get a chance to get some security in that and in this case, a max contract. But you really have to think about it and then you turn around, one thing you’re not doing is you’re not going to set him up.Boy, my brain is blanked out. Norris Cole was one that turned down an extension. I know not huge, but it would be nice for Norris. Ended up going on a one -year contract, ended up out of the league, bounced in and out of the league. You know, you get a chance to get some security in that, or in this case, a max contract. You really have to think about it. And then you turn around. One thing, all right, here’s the one thing you could sell him on.You have a claimant who is willing to pay for the salary job. So, when you sign a max, we are going on a max. We could probably sign a mocha to a max.You have an owner who is willing to blow through the salary cap. So you sign a max. We have Garland on a max. We could probably sign Mowgli to a max. We’re getting way into the tax thing, but you got an owner will do it. Whereas, you know, you go somewhere else and that they have to create room for you unless you really want to play out next year and become a total free agent. Do you want to run that risk after missing 20 some games?Well, getting way into the tough thing, it’s just gonna be a lot more to do. Whereas, you know, you go somewhere else and they have to put it into you unless you really want to pull back next year and become a total free agent, you want to run that risk after this and play some games. And that would be a thing that I would try to stick to my mind. So, you know, it’s taking me to the back of this line. So, I don’t know, I don’t know what to say. I love Mitchell’s game. I think his attitude is tremendous.That would be a thing that I would try to say to him nicely and that it should be in the back of his mind. So I love, I’ll tell you, I love Mitchell’s game. I think his attitude is tremendous. He’s a huge asset. My respect has grown for him over the two years and the press conference he had when he got here two years ago to the way he’s handled this. I thought he was absolutely right when he said, I’m not talking about the off season.Excuse the accent, but I respect his broad form over the two years from the cross -border president when he got here two years ago. He was the way he was handled this. I thought he was absolutely right when he said, and that’s often involved the off season. And there’s no reason to. And things, if you saw him, you shouldn’t find it, extant from a year ago when he was eligible. if you knew his age, you should have been fired. Because you’re gonna get 60 months.during the year and there’s no reason to. And fans, if you thought he should have signed it extension a year ago when he was eligible, if you were his agent, you should have been fired because he could get $60 million more now this upcoming summer than a year ago. It would have been a very stupid move to do at that point. So economically, there was no reason to do it. And also you want to spend two years here and see how it goes. So now.million more now this upcoming year. It would have been a very stupid move to do at that point. So economically there’s no reason to do it. And also you want to spend two years, you want to see how it goes. So now you’ve got a chance to see this. So that’s what I meant. I really do want to think about it some more and talk to some people.You got a chance to see that. So that that’s where I’m at. I really do want to think about some more and talk to some people, but, you see the NBA sets it up a maximum contracts and maximum contracts, not like baseball where you can get four times, you know, Shawnee or Tani or whoever you want, even like, Lindor got 341 million for 11 years. Those things don’t exist in the NBA.So you need to be able to set that up. And make sure your content is on Facebook. Or you can get four times, you know, selling a pie or whatever you want, even like that.A maximum contract is either four years or five years, depending on my different circumstances. In fact, if you don’t want the ways to fix baseball would be to put the maximum contract system in. The union doesn’t want it. It would. I have had. Yeah, right. But it was like, you know, for example, say that. Guardians could have signed when door to a five year, a $200 million extension. That’s the max say they probably would have done it.I mean, it’s not that I’m a business owner, it is, but it’s like, so now, in the same way this family deals, say, at $500, now we’re in the middle of year three, you can tell if it’s something you can tell, even if I’m back to this one, you know, I don’t know. And I’m talking about eight, 40 years today, you know, if you get a pretty, pretty, pretty good job here to get an MBA from Hollywood or somewhere, you know, I mean, this is like, it’s maddening how expensive.And you know why you do it? Cause he, I was talking to one executive. He said, and he was talking about a different star that he had, but he said, so now I signed him to this five year deal, say it at 200. Now we’re in the middle of year three. I can trade them if he’s still playing fairly well, even if my budget has gone, you know, just blown up. He goes, I’m not trading a guy with eight more years to go. You know, like you’re going to play, pray, pay for his grand kid to get an MBA from Harvard or somewhere. You know, I mean, this is like.Yeah, I would really flatten everything and make make more teams being able to get player movement and get involved in all that stuff. But anyway.It’s a manageable thing. It’s expensive, but not outrageous by the way pro sports works. Of course, as he said, the union won’t go for any of that, but I don’t even know if Major League Baseball ever really pushed for that.And I also think they might offer, just like here, you know, the NBA, a lot of times guys are surprised when a guy’s on a max contract because you didn’t think he was that good. But because it’s shorter, it makes a team more willing to do it. In some ways it really does favor the player because it helps them get a lot more money up front. So end of that one.All right, well before we end this segment Terry I have to ask you what you thought of LeBron and his wife Savannah sitting in the front row at the game last night and so what did you think? And Rich Paul was there I believe next to him and yep.Of course. Well, yeah. Well, Richard’s from my alma mater, Benedict, and he’s a Cleveland guide, like LeBron’s from Akron and Savannah’s from Akron.My bottom line is I think that was a pure power play to tell the Lakers, you don’t own me.Mm -hmm you don’t own me. I’m going to be which he is he’s going to become a I wrote about this about a week or two ago There’s no reason for him to pick up this player option Become a free agent because then he could get more years he can get a No, he doesn’t have a no trade. I guess the way this contract ran now out He could get another no trade in there and then there’s the whole brawny thingYeah, everything LeBron does is there’s a message behind it, right? We’ve seen that for his entire career, whether it’s a tweet he makes or some gesture he makes. And last night there was no, he could have gotten a loge at the game and kind of laid low a little bit, but he wanted to sit courtside and make sure he was seen. And that’s an interesting one, Terry. I was trying to think.But I don’t think it’s like, cause I want to go to Cleveland, but remember he doesn’t just wake up one morning and say, let’s go to the cast game.What he was trying to tell Cavs fans, maybe it was a message for one team. Maybe it really was. Yeah.Yeah, for the Lakers. Yeah. I mean, yeah. And besides, I think he was curious how will they receive me? Of course, it was like if the king came home, it was a huge ovation. And... He’ll never be as beloved anywhere as he is here. Not in Miami, not in LA. He’ll always be viewed as a hired gun in those places. This is where he’s the most beloved. But does that matter? Then the whole brawny thing of, we’re gonna save that for another long, I have real strong feelings on that, but I wanna kinda get that together. The one thing that was interesting,Did you know he was listed as 6 ‘4 in the USC roster and he measured as 6 ‘1 and a half?No, no, but I guess he shot well in the three -point combine drills or something so But I just think it’s all about squeezing the Lakers whether squeezing the Lakers to also take LeBron I mean brawny rather to keep LeBron or squeezing the Lakers because I Think he’s eligible not like I think his max contract could be like three years So that’s I mean they have all those different things and then at the age of 40 He wants a three -year deal for the max he mightI mean, it’s a facet of the bomb. I mean, there are many, many other people who are spreading the word because I think it’s eligible. I think these guys contacted me like three years. So it’s something that I know that I was different from. I was like, if he wants to find his deal for the next, he might, you know? So I’m a man who is handsome. He wants me to marry me. He’s mad. And they,You know, so, I know this after he left Miami, he vowed and he had now a rich fall, but rich Paul’s contract negotiators, another Cleveland guy named Mark Turney vowed. He would never play for less than a maximum contract again, because in Miami, all of those guys got slightly less than the max and they all got the same amount Bosch and Wade. And he said, never again.Now this fall with Paul’s contract against him, it’s no proven diamond, no point. Now he would never play for less than a maximum contract again. Because in Miami, all of those guys have slightly less than a max and they all got the same amount, Ross and Lee. And he said, never again. And I think it has been a never again. So this could be just another way he loves leverage.And I think it has been a never again. So this could be just another way. He loves leverage. And remember with LeBron sometimes what’s behind a curtain often is another curtain. you know, there’s a couple levels to things. And finally about LeBron, I will say this, here’s a guy who’s never demanded a trade, never broke a contract. You know, we could say about this or that leverage and that, but everything, you know, he is done has been according to the rules.And remember, LeBron sometimes does behind the curtain, often as another curtain. Yeah, there’s a couple levels to things. And finally about LeBron, I would say this. Here’s a guy who’s never demanded a trade, never wrote the contract. Now you can say about this or that, leverage and that, but everything that he has done has been according to the rules. Alright, well, I’ve seen a lot of people writing about this. It’s going to be another summer of LeBron. There’s going to be all kinds of intrigue and rumors and tweeting and all kinds of stuff. So we are in for a wild ride, I’m sure. And I’m sure the calves will be mentioned in a bunch of weird ways. So we’re all prepared for that. So alright, let’s take a break, Terry. When we come back, I want to ask you what you think of the Guardians’ chaos that they want to create every game. We’ll get into that and more when we come back on Terry’s Talking.Hey, we’re back on Terry’s talk and David Campbell and Terry Pluto and Terry. Let’s get into the Guardians here. This is really interesting. There’s sometimes in baseball seasons take on like a theme. I remember one year, Hoynsey was writing a lot about the the Guardians, then Indians playing zombie baseball. And this year it seems like the theme is the team of chaos that the Guardians want to create chaos. And what they mean by that is just, you know, sometimes you watch a little league game and there’s guys just run around the bases and overthrows and.Balls hitting guy base runners in the back for extra bases the Guardians are they say that in Stephen vote has said this they want to cause chaos During the game for their opponent by pushing for the extra base and man last night in the win over the Rangers Jose Ramirez was like a one -man chaos machine I was watching some of the game last night two for three four RBI’s two walks two steals He’s got seven steals on the season. He’s been caught one time, but it was just I thought an embodiment of what?chaos on the base paths look like? Do you like this kind of baseball, Terry? And do you think it fits this team?Yeah, when your team is athletic I like it and when you really only have two home run hitters I like it and when you have Jose Ramirez who runs hard on everything and not only is Chaos, but this is calculated chaos because he knows one to take the extra base and he knows how to do it.I like it. And when you have those able -minds who run from it and everything, and not only is chaos, but this is calculated chaos. Because he knows when to take the extra base, and he knows how to do it. And really, they played this race in 2022, remember that. This is the same, that one was almost like whole court press, based on what I call it. Where they run hard on everything, you saw guys probably balls and that kind of stuff.And really they played this way some in 2022. Remember that this is the same. Then it was almost like full court press baseball. I called it, where they ran hard on everything. You saw guys, bobbling balls and that kind of stuff. Well, vote came in and if you look at your roster, you say, all right, I got two guys get hit home runs and I’ve got some guys that are athletic and fast. And also.And if you want to get your lines pretty say, alright, I’ve got two guys figured out my lines, and I’ve got two guys that are athletic and fast, and I’m also... modern baseball with the only two throws to first base by the pitcher and the bases being bigger and even I think the pace being faster lends itself to more stolen bases and may not take the extra base because a lot of these teams I just think they’re good for modern baseball so I’m trying to explain it and I think it makes the team feel better regardless of where they’re in the beginning.Modern baseball with the only two throws to first base by the pitcher and the bases being bigger and even I think the pace being faster lends itself to more stolen bases and Why not try to take the extra base because a lot of these teams? They just simply don’t play good fundamental baseball so so try to exploit it and I think it makes the team feel better the guys playing the game soI mean, all right, here’s something for you. David, what does the average make? There it is. My stat thing coming right out. You can hear the rustling of papers. The average Major League Baseball team is batting what this year?694 and the Guardians are at 700. And of the 30 teams in Major League Baseball, the Guardians rank wherein scoring runs out of 30.so we’ve been talking about this last few weeks and they’ve been in the top five. So I’m going to say they struggled a little bit lately, so maybe five. How about five? OK.seven, they’re down to seven. And here’s the shocker, are the 30 teams, or are they in home runs?10. Yeah. So there you go. What that tells you is we are now in a thing where 240 is the average. It used to be certainly 250. And where you can hit 236 and be seventh and run scored. And part of that is because you are taking extra bases. And you’re also, I think, just enjoying the game. I mean, I’m looking right now. You know, Kwon, do they miss Kwon? my goodness. You know, if I were Kwon’s agent, I would like just use all my before and after stats right here and have the lineup with Kwon and without Kwon and all this. Yes. So, you know, he’s a 353. Then you have David Frye, 309. People keep writing, why doesn’t he play more? I agree. Especially because he can play multiple positions. And his OPS, by the way,No, it’s David Fry, 958. Okay, and then you have Josh Neuer, 267. So 353, 309, 267. Nobody else is sitting over 250 on the whole team. I had somebody complaining to me that Jimenez was batting only 248, then I looked at the stats and that’s fourth on the team. So there you go. I mean, the big thing, then I had heard some other people say, well, you know, Jose, they looked at the batting average 242. Well, he will be at least the last time I look, he’s leading the American league in RBIs. He’s got 37. And actually that means right now they’re basically at the quarter pole of the season. He’s on his way to driving in 140 runs.Yeah, yeah, no, no, and so that’s really neat. He’s seven out of eight on steals. I’m working on.I think he’s doing okay, right? I mean, he’s great defensively. And I think he and Jimenez make a great double play combination. And I think they’re going to ride with him for a while. Right? What are you seeing?Yeah, that’s what vote was saying. And you know, he’s like he’s seven to nine and steals and, here’s one for you. He and him and as, and they were all are tied for the team lead with a double. So he’s only getting two 12. it’s one of those, you just gotta, you gotta ride with them and see how it goes. but I’m, I’m encouraged. Remember he’s, he was my. wrong. He was the guy after Stephen Kwan that Roberta picked was Rokio. Back when I was on, I forgot who it was, but it was guys that are gone. So those are players there. What have you think of Tyler Freeman?Well, I wanted to ask you, Terry, I know you wanted to get into some of the guys in AAA, but like between Quan’s injury and what’s going on in center field, like they might be looking for some help, right? Like, is that what you’re seeing? And are there any guys in AAA that you’re catching your eye and you think could come up and help at least for a while?Well, the best guy playing down there is Daniel Schneeman and he is a basically utility infielder. He’s sitting three or four. He’s got seven homers.Jonathan Rodriguez, he’s sort of like this year’s Oscar Gonzalez and maybe you would be better. Six homers, 25 RBI’s, 283. You know, 43 strikeouts and 140 at bats. That’s a big number there. The problem is there’s not much down there. In case you’re wondering, I get these things. Well, Tywer Freeman is going to hit 190. He might as well bring Miles Straw back. The problem is Miles Straw’s hitting 211 at... at Columbus so and they’re playing him every day he leads the team and at bats and I mean I look at these stats and here’s another thing you’re in triple a miles and you’re striking out every three times it’s just not good he’s like lost his confidence and then my guy my prospect that I like Juan Brito he’s sitting 200 with six rbi’s so six home runs rather. So there’s just not a whole lot going on down there to call up Angel Martinez, who was the kind of like big star in spring training. He got hurt his foot or something and he hasn’t played. So what I’m telling you is don’t look below for much because I don’t think there’s much to come.All right, well, they’ll keep shuffling guys in there. And Kwan’s injury is pretty serious, and it’s going to take a while. So I think they’re just going to keep plugging away and see who they can put in there. So. Mm -hmm.Yeah, I mean Esteban Florio gets a shot. All these different guys get chances. I mean, they could call up Rodriguez and try him. He would be probably the only alternative. I was looking at some other things. Remember last year at this point, Nolan Jones was hot. He got traded to Colorado. He’s got a back injury. He’s hitting 170. He struck out 37 times in 94 at bats. He’s on the injured list. He’s just coming off. I was actually, I always kind of liked this guy and I’m glad to see he was doing well. Quantrill is pitching well in Colorado. He’s got a 3 .9 ERA and he’s throwing, you know, five to six innings a game. That’s really good there. Will Benson was another one a year ago that was doing well for the Reds. He’s sitting 191. How about this? He leads the national league with 60 strikeouts. So it kind of shows whether those guys.had an aberration and having the good years after they were traded and the guardians were right or maybe they’re just off the slow starts. I mean, both of those guys, Jones, especially Benson to me, always looked like a strikeout machine. I just wasn’t there. I wasn’t sure what to think of Jones. So, and I know a lot of guardians fans like him. I do too. Ahmad Rosario sitting 296 for Tampa Bay, 740 OPS.Yep, the outfield experiment failed here and it seems like it’s working there. So what are you gonna do, right? Hey Terry, I did want to spend a couple minutes before we move on talking about a manual class A.He’s played 16 games in the outfield, 10 a second base and four shortstop. So he’s finally developed actually to this utility player that they kind of talked about him doing here.Last night, I think he threw 17 pitches and closing that game out But here’s a guy who last season led the American League in saves and blown saves at the same time But if you look after last night 11 saves to blown saves 0 .44 ERA and I think we’re seeing a different version of class a than we saw last season I was kind of interested in what he’s doing differently and I thought you might find thisof noteworthy. So his cutter is known as not just a great pitch but probably one of the best pitches in baseball right in terms of being hard to hit. He threw 67 .6 % of his pitches as cutters last year and this season that’s up to 78 .5 which I thought was really interesting.Yeah, his cutter velocity is around 98 .6. Yeah, and he’s throwing 212 of those. Yeah, yeah, that’s why, and he’s getting some great movement on it. All right.I have some questions on that then because it’s pretty hard to throw a cutter which is kind of like sort of a flat slider that hard. I wonder what the computer is registering. I really do. But again, what do I know? It’s working for him. The nice thing just kind of looking at some other numbers, you know, he’s got...I’m not gonna look, I’m just trying to make sure I have my phone ready here. I don’t know, Terry, I’m gonna say seven, seven. Really?And we saw last year it was taking him a lot of pitches to get out of innings last year. Yep.Right, and he was pitching behind an account. So you turn around and you look at the fact that he’s only given up five hits per nine innings. He’s walking basically nobody. So he isn’t dealing with a lot of traffic on base. Have you noticed that we haven’t had a whole lot of drama saves from him? We just generally, you know, one, two, three saves or maybe one guy get on base saves.And I do wonder if it’s all tied together, Terry, if they told him like, listen, your cutter’s your best pitch. You need to throw it most of the time up 67 % again, up to 78 and his slider percentage, this is all according to baseball savant .com, which is a great website. I wanted to mention them, but there’s his slider percentage has gone from 32 % last season to 21 .1 % this season. So they must’ve told him like, listen, go with your best pitch and, and just pound the strike zone with it.Well, the other, this is a John Hart theory that, you know, as a general manager of the tribe back when they were building the team of the nineties, when he didn’t know what to do with a pitcher, whether it was Jose Mesa or Danny Baez, Eric Plunk, he said, I would put them in the bullpen and I call a pitch and a half because you get one pitch that you really rely on and another one you could use sort of, but don’t think that they’re equal. You have to have one dominant pitch. And then you could have another, it could be a slider, it could be a change up and don’t have three or four. We don’t need a guy pitching an inning with three or four pitches because I don’t want to see your third or fourth best pitch out there. when, when we’re just trying to get three outs. And so that could be to your point, you know, he’s on a pitch and a half here. I’ve never heard anybody say that before or since, but it’s,And this whole thing too always was, if a guy had drugged one, put him in the wheelchair for a while, the way that he was. But now, that had to go back to when I said it would be oriol. Rarely did they bring cargo home from the night and put him in the location. They usually took him in and out the wrong way. And, except they were always ordered a car, but that was probably oriol away. And if the guy was drugged, right,It to me it’s a fascinating way to look at it and his whole thing too always was if a guy is struggling Put him in the bullpen for a while to let him Straighten out that actually goes back to when I covered the Orioles in 79 Rarely did they bring a starter up from the miners and put them in a rotation they usually put them in middle or long relief and Of course they were always loaded with starters, but that was called the Oriole wayIt’s interesting Terry, it’s not even a pitch and a half with with class a listen to this he’s thrown 212 cutters this season at an average MPH of 98 .6.And if a guy was struggling, they would put him in the bullpen and they would try to simplify what he’s throwing. I didn’t hear, not hear the pitch in half, but John Hart grew up in the Oriole system. So, and Hank Peters, his mentor was there. So I think that’s probably where all of that came from.He’s thrown 57 sliders. So that’s about a fourth, right? Maybe even a little more. 89 .8. So he’s got his pitch, but then the other one is a quarter of what he’s thrown. So he has the two pitches, a pitch and a half, but like he’s not using them in any kind of half or whatever. But he, no, but I get that. Yeah. But the other thing I was going to say is his four seam fastball, he’s only thrown one the whole season, according to Baseball Savant.That’s why I just wonder what this thing is recording. I’m very serious on that. Spin rate is why everybody’s getting elbow surgery too. So that’s another broadcast. It really is. Because think about that. The way to make a ball spin more is to put a lot of stress on your elbow to snap it. Simple.Why are you having most of these guys who are having arm surgery? There’s some shoulder surgery surgeries, but they’re primarily the Tommy John elbow one and has to do a lot with Snapping off the breaking ball and so on but one walk I think tells a big story thereAll right, here’s a guy and I was down on him. And I have to admit so far he’s doing very well. I mean, we all could, with a reliever, you tend to remember a bad game or two. Scott Barlow, 279 ERA. He’s pitched in 21 games. And, you know, he’s come in quite a bit, to help them out. And then of course, the other guy you were going to mention is Nick Sandlin, which this is phenomenal to me. what he’s doing because I did not see this coming where he’s got a 174 ERA and he is pitched in 22 games, you know, 20 innings and, and the other thing that’s helped him, here’s a weird stat for Samlin, Stanlin, excuse me, Samlin, 22, 20 innings. He said four guys, move them out of there. So. But he’s doing well. The whole bullpen to me is that’s just been the shockingly good thing about the season has carried the team thus far. And we’ll see if they could keep it up.Yeah, I don’t want to turn this into like who’s throwing what Terry, but I did look up some stuff on Sandlin his split. Last year he threw 4 .4 % of his pitches were his split finger and that’s up to 21 .1%. So I think he’s having some pretty good success with him on that pitch and they’re really going to it. So.Yeah, and it helps him against left -handed hitters. That was a big thing. They were they told him you had to find something to get lefties out because he throws that sidearm thing now if you looked at him He was an elite starter out of I want to say, Southern, Mississippi And then he was drafted. I think in the second round he vaulted through the minors really quick and Came up and then he started to have some arm problems. He’s had our own problems twice. I And so it also could be finally he’s healthy so it’s Stephen Vogt should be on his hands and knees every night thanking the Lord he has his bullpen because this made him look really smart and when you’re going to the bullpen as much as they are the last time I looked they were second in the league and innings pitched in relief You need all these guys pitching like they are because otherwise, you know you Like for example, Texas has a terrible bullpen. I think they’re second or third worst in the American league and they gagged up the game yesterday and then gave up seven runs in two innings or whatever it was. So, and I don’t think it’s cause the manager’s an idiot. I think it’s cause the bullpen is bad. And they, you know.Well, there’s a reason they’ve lost five out of the last six, Terry. That’s probably a big part of it.Yeah, and it is and you when your bullpen goes cold on you man, that’s tough I remember Omar Rascal was telling me this is back when Mesa was struggling and somebody else course he never liked Mesa to begin with but that’s And Sheldon Oka from the Beacon Journal and I were talking to Omar it was just kind of was off the record things and Said yeah, you bring a Mesa and I don’t know who the other guy was you go guy, I guess you think that’s what you’re saying. You ought to hear what we’re saying Yeah I’m like thinking, of course, they’re at the same game too. The guy comes in ball one, ball two, you know, all that. No chance.All right. Well, the Guardians are back at it against Texas and then they return this weekend for a three game series against the Angels before they had to do Philadelphia next week. So all right, Terry, we don’t have to spend a lot of time on the Browns. They are out of season. But the big news of this week is that the NFL schedule is coming out tomorrow on Wednesday, May 15th. And we already know who the home opener is going to be against. It’s going to be September 8th. It’s the first Sunday of the season.They’re getting the 425 kickoff against the Dallas Cowboys and Tom Brady will be doing his first game on Fox as a commentator. The other two kind of big notable games that have been released so far, the Thursday night game to open the season will be Kansas City against the Ravens on Thursday, September 5th. And then the game that the Browns were rumored to be a candidate for in Brazil on Friday, September 6th. And that ended up being the Eagles and the Packers down in Brazil. I don’t know. I’m just gonna ask you Terry. What game are you most looking forward to? I’ll tell you the home Opponents and the road opponents. Tell me which ones one or ones you are most excited about they’ve got the Chargers Chiefs Cowboys Giants and Dolphins at home in addition to the division teamsWell, I mean, yeah, the, yeah, the cheese, the cheese obviously are fun. The dolphins are almost like a basketball team. That’s great at home and not so good on the road. they’re fun to watch play because of their, but maybe I’m just ingrained in this. I mean, stewards, Ravens, you know, those are, you know, bangles, but that’s what I care about. I do.And because I just think it’s mono on mono and you know, we’re all right. Everything often goes back to Watson, with the Browns because if they are going to become an elite team, you got to beat those guys home in road and they’re going to try to beat you up. And right now, you know, in this league, you know, well, Mark Jackson is better than you are. And so is Joe burrow. And we’ll see, excuse me, what Russell Wilson is like with Pittsburgh, but I have a feeling. Wilson’s going to at least do an average to above average job with the Steelers. And if you were to look at the body of work that in his 12 games he’s played here, he’s had a couple of elite games, but it’s been very mediocre overall. So this is the time, those are the ones I want to see. Yeah, the Glamour games, Dallas, Kansas City, fun with Miami, you know, on the road, where do they go on the road?So these are the road games that are not division games. It’s the Broncos, Washington, the Eagles, the Jaguars, the Raiders, and the Saints. I’m looking forward to that Eagles road game, because they’re physical. It’s like an AFC North game, but it’s against an NFC team. And...But it doesn’t seem that way to me, does it to you? I guess it’s just because the AFC North, you’re just banging your heads against those teams all the time. There’s six games right there. Yeah, those six teams right there. So you just, you got them there. Then you have Kansas City and you have Dallas. Go ahead. What do you have on that?Yeah, there’s a lot of good, you know, between the Eagles, Cowboys, Dolphins, Chiefs, that’s a pretty good winning percentage. But the Browns do, based on last season’s winning percentage, the Browns have the toughest schedule in the NFL for 2024, based on last season’s winning percentage. Their opponents were 547 last year, 547 winning percentage. The Ravens have the second toughest at 536. The Steelers have the third at 533. Yeah.Yeah, the Bengals are way down the Bengals are way down middle of the pack 502 The three easiest I’ll just do the four easiest the Carolina Panthers 467 the Bears 467 the Saints 453 and the Falcons 453 those are the four Easiest if you were to base it on last season’s opponent win percentage, so there you goWell, gee, there it is explains it because they’re all all the good teams play each other. Where are the Bengals?Well, it’s because, you know, that’s always deceiving because, you know, a quarterback gets hurt and suddenly a team that’s really good isn’t. And that’s true because the Bengals last year didn’t have burles. So, you know, for like half a year or whatever it was. But in the end, I just, I have a feeling the fans are the same way with most of them. I get up, get up for those division games because those teams are good. That’s all I mean, I play the Ravens. I want to see what they do at Walmart Jackson. I want to see what they do at Burrow. You know, Steelers, please, can they beat them twice in a year?Yeah, and those wins are like a game and a half. You’re right, Terry, because they matter in the division and everything. So anyway, that all happens tomorrow night, Wednesday night, and we will know the full schedule by then. I think all the NFL teams are putting their tickets on sale at 8 o ‘clock tomorrow night, so that’s going to be interesting. Yeah. All right. Hey, before we get, yeah, go ahead.How does the NFL pull this off? They turn the schedule into an event like the NFL draft or something. People speculate about it. They go on and on about it. It goes on for a month or more and they leak a little out. And what day, what time? I mean, I get the love of football, but it’s like every other league is looking, how did they pull this off? Nobody cares about our schedule when it comes out. It just pops up and they go, okay.Yeah, when does MLB put out theirs? Like in December or something? Or no, they do it earlier now. It’s just...So we open April. Yeah, it doesn’t matter because it doesn’t matter anyway. You know, sometimes they bring it out in September. They bring it out the next one before the next year’s because it doesn’t matter. The NBA doesn’t matter. Although maybe this is it too.have been regulated to kind of a secondary category in hockey, in baseball, in basketball, at least compared to the NFL.No, excuse me, the regular season because of the playoffs, I got it backwards. The regular season has been made irrelevant to some extent. Just get into the playoffs. Okay. As opposed to, I mean, right now, for example, the calves, you know, I’ve played, let’s see, this would be their 12th playoff game coming up. You play 82 regular season. and you know, if you win by the time, if you win a title, you’re almost playing, like 25 to 30 % of your. games like the brother regular season. I remember when LeBron was, you won’t hear an NFL player say, well, I don’t care if we finished first or whatever, as long as they get in the playoffs, it’s fine with me. You know, you get that knee at the NBA and maybe that is also part of the reason to your NBA season. Your, your major league baseball season, just doesn’t feel as important as the NFL. Of course, the NFL, a preseason game.Yeah, they’ve turned into a 12 month a year endeavor and they’ve got it down to a science. So.will out draw a higher TV audience than any average Guardians game and some first round Guardians playoff games in 2022. So it just doesn’t matter the product there’s an insatiable appetite for it. But what a marketing thing. They’re incredible.All right, Terry. Hey, before we go any further, I did want to mention your new newsletter, which we kind of talked about last week. Hey, this is a great time to subscribe to Cleveland .com and become part of our community. The easiest way to do it is just go to Cleveland .com slash subscribe. And if you subscribe, they will send you information on how to start getting Terry’s weekly newsletter. We used to do a newsletter, Terry, where it would just kind of grab what you wrote during a week and it would send it out. But now you’re actually writing.a column, like a separate column for our subscribers every week. And I know you’re getting some great reaction to that. So if you’re interested, that’s the way to do it. Cleveland .com slash subscribe. So.It’s on different topics too. It’s probably about 1500 words and some good reader interaction. And a hundred years ago, I had something like this at the Akron Beacon journal. I was on the first to do it. And we had people that could just sign up for it was one of just learning on the internet. And I saw the kind of the power of the community in that. And really what I wanted to do is reward the people that subscribe. So when we talked about that rather than, okay, well here’s, stuff that’s already been in the paper or been already been online know that this is something special for you and it’s written a lot more informally like a little bit there where I kind of went on my rant about the schedule and the marketing that is in the newsletter there. So I’m trying to do something special and hopefully it’ll work out.I know the reaction has been great so far and this thing is just going to continue to grow. So again cleveland .com slash subscribe. We’d love to have you part of the community. So all right, well it’s May Terry and I know you are very into graduation speeches and the message and I think your call your faith in you column this week is going to be about graduation speeches and advice and where you headed with that this week. It’ll be online this weekend on Saturday and in Sunday’s Plain Dealer. Talk about that for a minute.Well, first of all, since half the places can’t seem to even have a graduation speech anymore, and probably most of the ones they get are not going to be particularly grounded in the real world. That’s the start of me with this years ago. They have some actress giving, you know, well, you need to make the world a better place and you need to be all you can be. And kind of all these sort of platitudes as opposed to like best version of yourself. Yeah.JB pulled that one out yesterday before the game. We had the best version of ourself and Jason Tatum and honor Nate Ulrich from the Beacon Journal did say, I need to score the ball. So that was a good one too. and I did see something, a headline about don’t sleep on somebody, some team. So I think that team did go to sleep, but in terms of this, we don’t want anybody to sleep on the graduation speech because.All right, here’s an example of a story I’m going to tell. I remember I’m a Ricky baseball writer in Baltimore and I’m very kind of, I was like 24, one of the youngest baseball writers in the country at the time, maybe the youngest, very full of myself at that point. And I’m talking to this older guy and I said, you know, something, I go, and if I were running this paper, here’s what I would do. And he goes, you’re not.And I said, what do you mean? He goes, you’re not. And then actually later on, he had another talk and he said, here’s how it works. Nobody cares what you or me think about the business end of it or what they don’t care. But if it’s something that has to do directly with your job, that whether to make it better or whatever, that’s where you put your energy. When you go to the boss, you don’t tell the boss, you don’t like the three other guys they just hired. You don’t tell the boss that if you were really smart, you’d put this on the front page when you have nothing to do with the front page. Do your job well. And then when you confront somebody or whatever, you then talk about what is basically in your ballpark, not in somebody else’s.it was at Manchester high school, Jim France was a football coach and principal. He’s a good friend of mine. Yes. A legend. And the whole graduation speech was like a football practice, host ceremony broken down. I had eight minutes and 30 seconds. And I think I basically, one of the things that just said, now you got to remember when you go out, not everybody loves you or is going to love you.You don’t need to have an opinion on everything. And what they’re going to look at is what type of person can they count on you? And one of my favorite lines, and it’s a cliche from somewhere, is under -promised and over -produced. under -promised and over -produced. Like for example, Roberta will notice this. When I know I’m running late, I’ll call her and say, I know I said I’d be home by six, but it’s going to be more like seven. And if I show up at six or six 15, she’s fine. You never get yelled at for being early. The problem is so many of us operate on whether it’s for assignment. Well, if everything goes right, the minute you say those words, rip your tongue out because everything.Doesn’t always go right. You know, if everything goes right, it should be there by 5 .30. It won’t. And then you just disappoint. So you just say, if you think you’re going to be on by 5 .30, make it six. In other words, treat somebody else’s time as valuable as your own. So that’s what you’re going to get.I like that. So you can get that and more if you check out Terry’s Faith in You column this weekend. I do want to mention, Terry, I think a year ago I was looking at some graduation speeches and there’s this guy named Rainn Wilson, our AI, and he played Dwight Schrute on The Office. And he went to Nutrier High School, which isn’t far from where I grew up. It’s in the north suburbs of Chicago, a very well -off suburban high school. But they invited him back because he was a graduate and he gave a really great...That’s one of the better graduation speeches I’ve ever seen, but he thanked everybody that helped him get where he was and inspired him to go into acting. But one of the things he said, he was speaking to this very well -off community and he said, there is such a thing as privilege. And what it means is that when you are well -off, it is a privilege for you to help people who don’t have what you have. And I thought that was a lovely line that he turned.And it’s a nice speech. I think it’s about 15 minutes. If you ever want to check it out, Rainn Wilson’s speech at his alma mater, New Trier High School. I thought that was a nice line. Like, if you have things, it’s a very biblical way of putting it, right? It’s your privilege. I thought that was a nice turn of phrase. It’s your privilege to help people who are on hard times and don’t have what you have. It was a nice message.Yeah, too much who has been given much as expected. But one of the things I always say too is every need is not a call. And so you need to, for example, all these years that I’ve given this like third or fourth time, so for example, but my stuff from ministry has been involved around either jail ministry, haven arrest, city mission. And now it’s been a lot when I go to visit my mom with the nursing home. It’s not only with her, especially Roberta does a great job of talking and praying with a lot of the other people there, but I do some too. So as opposed to trying to do all these different things everywhere, do a few things really well. But that’s a great point because it isn’t all about you. And that was actually what also, when that guy said, well, you don’t run the paper, it’s not all about you, Terry. You know, and so that’s the whole thing. All right.All right, good stuff, Terry. All right, hey, we will move into our final bit here. We have some more foul ball stories and one of them’s actually a foul ball story, but it was kind of funny. So I thought we would include it. This first one is from Tom Hearn. Tom’s a long time listener from Lexington, Kentucky. And he says, hey, Terry and Dave, here is my foul ball story. Our neighbors in Chagrin Falls had two girls the same ages as our girls. He worked for a big CPA firm downtown and John was able to get the corporate loge.September 2nd 1990 the girls were all excited and the loge was great the only problem was it was just left of the left field foul pole the girls did not mind because they were busy eating and talking the game was terrible Dave Steeb pitched a no -hitter and Bud Black gave up only three runs gave up three runs you remember this one do you Terry?All right. Tom says, the only highlight was Cory Snyder hit a rocket down the left field line that I thought was going to be a homerun, but it hooked into the loge. The ball hit me in the hands and my oldest daughter caught it. It was the only excitement to the game. Just as an aside, my wife who has attended about 20 baseball games in her life has seen four no hitters, three by Cleveland and one by the Blue Jays. Isn’t that something?You gotta be kidding David David I have never seen a no -hitter all these games I Mean I saw the last three outs of the Lenny Barker perfect game that year I was on the beat. I probably covered a hundred fifty five games But that evening I was at an award ceremony downtown Cleveland for a writing thing and and there was one of few It was really young in my career is when the first time I won something kind of nice Roberta’s with me, so she’s dressed up really nice, so am I. And we get a call. Barker’s got a perfect game going as the seventh inning. Can you get there? I got there just in time to see the last three outs. And I went down and wrote a story, but I don’t count it.Well, there you go. Tom’s wife is four for 20. That’s a pretty good no hitter average. So thanks for that letter, Tom. And again, if you want to hit us with more foul ball stories before I forget to mention this, you can email us at sports at cleveland .com, put Terry’s talking in the subject line and we will try to get it on. So, all right. Now, last one is from Michael Chico Susco. Chico is his nickname and Michael is from Mason, Ohio. He says, Hey, listen to Terry’s talking podcast today. And you discussed.personal foul ball stories that I found quite entertaining. I have an experience you might find entertaining. In the early 1970s, three friends and myself ventured to municipal stadium on a Sunday afternoon for a doubleheader. During the day, we separated in pairs and set an inning to meet back at our seats. My friend Arley and I made our way to a concession stand on the lower level concourse. An older gentleman is posted there to check press passes. As we were standing in line, someone in the crowd says, here comes Nick Maletti. Nick is walking down the catwalk from the press box in a white blousey shirt unbuttoned to the navel with a big gold chain and powder blue bell -bottom slacks. His dark hairdo was unmistakable and he has a pair of sunglasses. Immediately, a lot of the fans at the concession stand flock toward him for autographs. The older gentleman at the press box entrance leaves his post to do crowd control. At this point, one of us earlier I said, let’s go.We bounded up two steps to the catwalk and went to the press box. We got to the press box and said, this is the best seat in the house. What a view. In those days, they had tiered tables with typewriters on them. We sat there looking over our shoulder for someone to evict us, but it never happened. Arlie found a restroom down the tiny hallway. And when he came back, he said he saw Gabe Paul in the bathroom.He also said there was a girl at the end of the hallway selling food. We went down there for a hot dog and a pop. Arlie reached into his pocket to paint. She said, there’s no charge. There was free food for the press people and radio broadcasters. We saw the names on the doors for Harry Jones, Mudcat Grant and Rocky Colavito where they did radio and TV, watched a couple of innings and we decided we should not press our luck. We made our way to the catwalk where the guard was stationed and he looked at us and said, what are you guys doing here? We said, we were looking for a restroom. He said, get out of here and don’t come back.Then we have to convince our friends that we got into the press box. So anyway, there’s that story from Mike Susco from Mason, Ohio. So there you go, Terry.That press box was bad except the view was fantastic. It was really good, David. It was like in the lower part of the upper deck. And so in other words, it was like, yeah, it was almost perfect. But the rest of it, the bathrooms, everything else, it was like being in an erector set too, it was all metal. And on bat day, kids would take those baths and just bang it. I learned after my first year to...That was in a few days I would take off as bat day, because you would just get a headache. But I remember, you talk about dreams and things like, so I’m in high school and I want to write. And I would see the catwalks where you could see the people go on the press box and I’d see Hal Levoitz and Russ Snyder and Bob Sudek and some Bob August and I knew who all those guys were. And I used to think, and they’d be carrying their typewriters and I’d think, you know, maybe one day that could be me. You know, I wonder. I wasn’t looking at the field saying that could be me. I was by then Benedictine and you know, the real world of baseball had hit me. But I wonder if I could do that. So then it wasn’t all that long later, maybe eight or 10 years later, it was doing it. And I never was warned about how bad those bathrooms were.That’s not something they teach in journalism school or anything. So yeah. All right. I think we are done. Anything else you want to mention Terry? All right. Hey, thanks for listening everybody. Again, if you want to subscribe and get Terry’s newsletter, it is cleveland .com slash subscribe. I may have a new link for you next week. I will check that out in the meantime, but thank you all for listening. We appreciate you being part of this Terry Pluto community and we will talk to you next week on Terry’s talking. If you purchase a product or register for an account through a link on our site, we may receive compensation.and agree that your clicks, interactions, and personal information may be collected, recorded, and/or stored by us and social media and other third-party partners in accordance with our

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