Stephen Means and Andrew Gillis discuss Ohio State recruiting.
Listen to Buckeye Talk, your favorite Ohio State football podcast, five days a week with Stephen Means, Stefan Krajisnik and Andrew Gillis.COLUMBUS, Ohio -- On this episode of Buckeye Talk, Stephen Means and Andrew Gillis delve into Ohio State football’s recruiting strategy, particularly in light of the recent transfer portal dynamics.
They discuss the implications of a large recruiting class, the emotional investment fans have in recruits, and the need for a shift towards quality over quantity in future recruiting efforts. The conversation also touches on how the transfer portal is reshaping roster management and the overall landscape of college football recruiting. Thanks for listening to Buckeye Talk and sign up to get text messages from experts Stephen Means, Stefan Krajisnik and Andrew Gillis at 614-350-3315. Get the insider analysis, have your voice heard on the Buckeye Talk podcast and connect with the best Buckeye community out there.Former Ohio State five-star commits to Notre Dame: Buckeye BreakfastRead the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.Welcome back to Buckeye Talk. I’m Stephen Means and that’s Andrew Gillis. And this is Tuesday episode of Buckeye Talk where we are talking about the transfer portal in relation to Ohio State football’s recruiting efforts in terms of strategy and how they go about building out their recruiting classes. And we’re doing this because Ohio State is coming off of a recruiting class where they added 28 people. That is the most people they’ve ever added in a recruiting class since Ryan Day took over as the head coach and You’re probably asking yourself in a world where they added 28 people in the transfer portal, I’m assuming in the recruiting class. Why are they losing so many people in the transfer portal? And is it any relation to why they decided to add this many people in the recruiting class? And so we are going to spend the next 45 minutes to an hour answering two questions. Did Ohio State take the right approach by having a 2026 class? that was large in quantity and does what we’ve seen happening in the transfer portal this year impact how we should expect Ohio State to approach building classes in the future. Let’s start with the recruiting class itself. Gillis, a lot of these guys are already on campus as early enrollees got here last week. That would include guys like Chris Henry Jr. That would include guys like Blaine Bradford. That would include guys like Sincere Johnson, 28 people in a class that finished fifth.Yeah, I think so. I think you need to have a still strong backbone of high school recruiting. I was looking this up before we did this. It wasn’t just Ohio State that made this big kind of grandiose, we’re going to take a bunch of high school kids and That’s how we’re going to build this thing out now because blah, blah. Now, does every program have different situations? Yes. For example, USC Lincoln Riley’s kind of got to win sooner rather than later or else he’s going to be needing another job. But USC did take 35 in the 2026 recruiting class. They had the number one ranked recruiting class in terms of total points. They were down a little bit when it came to player average. Notre Dame. the program just ahead of Notre Dame in or ahead of Ohio State in player average and total points, 3247, 29 commits. Georgia, the team just below Ohio State in average player rating and total points, 30 commits. So again, Ohio State had 27 and we’re talking USC 35, Notre Dame 29, Georgia 30, Tennessee 27, Miami 30, Florida State 33. Those are schools in the top 15. So you might be thinking to yourself, well, I bet those schools have gone nuts in the portal too though, right? Georgia has six transfers in and 12 out. Okay, that’s, you know, that’s fair. Notre Dame has four in and 15 out. And again, we are doing this Monday afternoon. So obviously these things can change.A lot of the big boys schools are getting active in the portal this week, which is why you’ve seen Ohio State and Notre Dame adding significant pieces since Monday happened.Yeah, Tennessee 10 in 21 out. There have been a lot of schools and I know Miami is still playing, so they’re in a unique situation. They have three and eight, three and eight out. So Ohio State has like 28, I think was our tracker last I checked out and they have seven in right now. That’s significant. But. I still think taking a large number of high school kids, maybe it’s not 28 every year, but I think taking a large number of high school kids is probably fair. And frankly, I wonder if Ohio State hadn’t committed all of these resources and all of this time and all of this effort into bringing in 28 various recruits. Do you still see the kind of exodus that you do now? because you hadn’t committed that money and. You probably have a little bit more room for depth, right? A guy like, you know, Blaine Bradford, if he is what Ohio State thinks he is. OK, well, maybe really hard for did need to go. You know that Fahim Delain is an interesting one, but it’s like there’s an interesting dynamic at play here with money and how you want to see the roster. So I still think that. taking a large number of high school kids is the right strategy. I don’t know if completely flipping to, well, we should just take 14 high school kids and then portal our way out of this every year. I don’t think that’s the right way to do things.So I’m going to play the antagonist today just for the sake of conversation about it. And I tried to I think I did a little bit on the Monday pop Stefan. So don’t feel like this is just it’s everything. I’m just I want us to cover all the bases of the things that I think fans are worried about. I went back to twenty twenty three because that group is now seniors there in their fourth year at Ohio State. And this is where you really started to see it pick up at Ohio State of like sign said, OK. we were eventually going to get to this portal cycle that we’re seeing right now where they are losing guys where it feels like you’re losing deaf pieces. You’re losing people that are more high name. You’re not just using guys who are maybe lower rated guys who are at the bottom of the deaf chart and never going to get up in 2023. They signed 21 commits. Here are the guys who left after one year, Noah Rogers. He never played a snap at Ohio state. He transferred to NC state and now he’s back in the portal. Nigel Glover. played zero snaps here. He kind of came from Northwestern after the Pat Fitzgerald stuff happened and then he went right back to Northwestern after the 2023 season. And then Cedric Hawkins, Ohio State fans remember Cedric Hawkins as the guy who committed while how state was in the middle of a 2021 Rose Bowl against Utah. Cedric Hawkins never played a snap here as a safety transfer to UCF never played a snap there and has now transferred to South Florida where he’s playing for Brian Hartland. Here the guys who left after two years in the program. Calvin Simpson Hunt played 29 snaps as a cornerback here. Transferred the Baylor where he played 50 snaps last season. DB J Bonsu never played a snap. Transferred the pit and they turned him into a linebacker. Here the guys who left after three years and this is going to be long, so just sit back and enjoy. Jelani Thurman. This is where you get guys who actually played some meaningful level of football at Ohio State. Jelani Thurman played 324 snaps here. He is currently in the portal and has transferred to North Carolina. Lee Carford played 291 snaps and three years of safety. He is now in the portal, has not found a new destination. And then Bryson Rogers played 297 snaps. He did hop in the portal after his freshman year, but decided to stay. Might not be the last time we see a receiver do that. And now he is following Brian Hartline to South Florida. So, OK, I don’t think Gillis, you would look at any of those losses, whether because of where they ended up, what the role was here, which is in general, as like the sky is falling, right?OK, here’s twenty twenty four. Twenty two commits. Aaron Nolan was the only one who left after a year. He played zero snaps. He was the fifth string quarterback here, transferred to South Carolina and was the backup there and is back in the portal now. And part of that is because his name is escaping me right now. South Carolina started quarterback. Too many names. Norris Sellers is back and I don’t know if anybody was anticipating him being back 12 months ago. Leaving after two years, Mylon Graham.176 snaps here so far he is currently in the portal. I will say this if there is a guy who at Ohio State has lost of the 28 players they have lost to the transfer portal. If there is a guy who could come back and I’m not saying he will or he won’t. I’m saying the doors at least still open up the idea that he could be back. It’s going to be myling grab. But right now he counts as one of the guys who’s left after two years. Aaron Scott played 180 snaps here. He’s currently in the portal as a five star recruit. Bryce West played 120 snaps here. He has since transferred to Wisconsin. James Peoples by 278 snaps here. He has since transferred to Penn State. Dominic Kirk’s played 24 snaps here as a defensive lineman who flipped from Washington. He is currently in the portal. Devante Armstrong, offensive lineman from Lakewood, Ohio, never played a snap here. He’s in the portal. His twin brother still on the roster, which I was interesting. They’re splitting up the band. it feels weird when twins go their separate ways because it’s like I’m officially my own person. We’ve beenYeah, like it’s it’s always that separation when you’re twins and it’s interesting to see the ages that it happens. Marion Whitten came here as a tight end slash wide receiver played zero snaps. He is currently in the portal. Sam Williams Dixon went in the portal after his first year decided to hop back out and come back to Ohio State. He’s played 12 snaps over last two years and transferred to South Carolina. Eric Mensah, he’s from the Virginia area. He played 19 snaps as a defensive tackle here and now he’s transferred to Virginia Tech. So he’s joining James Franklin and then Nick McClarty.Little more loud, right, Gillis? But I don’t know if you paint the picture like that, then you’re probably less frustrated with the losses as you would be if I just said five star, five star top 100 recruit, right? Like I wouldn’t I don’t know. Sky’s not falling based off of that necessarily.No, but you know, there’s a few raindrops where you’re like, ha, probably would have liked to keep Aaron Scott. you mentioned the Milan Graham thing. as I understand it, like three days ago, four days ago, as you’re listening to this, was no shot and now it’s the doors open. So it’s like, you know, that’s obviously one that Ohio state would prefer to keep. but yeah, you know, I don’t think anybody’s really kind of losing their lunch over Nick McLarty entering the portal. And that’s no disrespect to Nick McLarty. But, you know, I just, you know, there was, was inconsistencies that Ohio State had and he was, you know, part of that.Okay, and here’s a 2025 class who got here 12 months ago Quincy Porter played 57 snaps here and then hopped in the portal he is as of Monday committed to Notre Dame We’ll see if he signs because I mean cam Coleman was committed to Alabama. He signed with Texas actually I don’t even know he signed with Texas for him to lane played 81 snaps as a safety here He’s in the portal Jarques Carter high high ceiling there. They really liked him defensive tackle played 61 snaps here He’s in the portal Bobbin Miller A developmental wide receiver who probably wasn’t going to play for the first year for two or three years. He was here. Maybe we’ll see where he was at in year four. He’s in the portal defensive tackle. Max Roy was dealing with an injury this entire year. Played zero snaps. He went in the portal. He is now head of the U.S. UCLA. He was the first of his bunch to find a new home. Javon McFadden, one of three offensive linemen, Ohio State signed in the twenty twenty five recruiting class. He did not play a single snap last year, even though his two other counterparts, Carter Lowe and and. Jake Cook did. actually don’t even think J Balm Macfadden traveled at all this year. He is now in the portal. So that’s 25 commits, six portal exits so far for the 2025 class. 22 commits in the 2024 class. 11 of them have already left in the transfer portal. 21 commits in the 2023 class. Eight of them have already left in the portal as that class enters its fourth year of college football. Why should I care? Why not? Why? What’s if I’m a fan? And my takeaway from almost half of the 23 class didn’t make it to year four. Half of the 2024 class didn’t make it to year three. You know, the year where they’re supposed to be the heart of a football team and six guys from the 2025 class are already gone. And three of those six include a five star, a top 100 safety and a defensive tackle. All of which, if they were playing starter level snaps in 2026, we would not be shocked about why.hamper down how many people you’re bringing in in a year. If we’re gonna be living in a world where 12 months later, a third of them are gone, 24 months later, half of them are already gone.Yeah, that’s a completely fair question, I would say. It’s a question that you can look at and say, all right, well, this has kind of pissed me off. So I get it. But I would say, Stephen, you root for the Atlanta Falcons.Do you watch the NFL draft every year? But why? They’re gonna draft a fifth round guy who’s not gonna be on the team in three years. He’s not gonna make the next year’s roster. Why would you watch? Do you know who Justin Schaeffer is?Yeah, I mean I also like cover the football team for a living so it’s like it’s kind of hard sometimes man to keep up with.Yeah, he was a fourth round rookie for the Falcons in 2021. He played 48 games for the team. He now plays for the Cardinals. He played two years in Atlanta, missed the 2023 season with an injury. You still care. You still watch. You still say, I hope my team gets good players. You still kind of convince yourself, my team picked nine times in the draft. Maybe we just drafted nine gold jackets. You’ll watch it and go ahead.But I think that’s the key difference here. You just said it. You still draft it nine people. We’re talking about 25, 22 and 21. I’m not saying you shouldn’t care about recruiting. I’m asking because I think I understand that the premise you’re making with the draft, because it’s no different than than Pantoni sitting up there at a microphone in front of us and go and listen. You see the. Yeah, like I get in it. He’s not wrong about that, but.You’re supposed to have seven picks in the NFL draft. Now, granted, some years maybe you have more, some years you have less, depending on how you’ve traded things and how you just operated in the front office. But like the base, you’re supposed to have seven. You’re supposed to have one pick per round. So that’s seven people. New to a 53 man roster versus 25 new people to a 85 man roster.I’m not saying you should go from 25 to 7, that’s insane! But what if instead of 25, you did 16?Is that a fair kind of, don’t know, halfway in the middle? Because I’m wondering for the fan who spent.You got excited about Quincy Porter when he committed to you, especially because you know, if you know the storyline and you truly follow recruiting, he was supposed to go on a visit to Michigan. The Friday he committed to Ohio State, he nixed that visit, committed to Ohio State, got here six months later, and then like five practices into the spring, he lost his black stripe. So like, he’s on the same trajectory that like Carnell Tate and Marvin Harrison Jr. on, where now you’re thinking, you’ve invested in him as a recruit. The early sign suggests he’s next. So you have probably started thinking in your head, okay, Carnell Tate’s going pro. There’s an open spot opposite of JJ in 2027. Excuse me, 2026. That’s Quincy’s spot. He spent the year learning behind Carnell and JJ. and now he’s playing opposite of JJ, we’re still rolling along. And 12 months, 18 months after Quincy Porter committed to Ohio State, he is a Notre Dame fighting Irish. So all that emotional capital you just spent for 18 months gearing up for Quincy Porter Jr., Ohio State wide receiver, essentially meant nothing. Let’s take Aaron Scott. This is an Ohio kid. I was there. I was physically in the building when he committed to Ohio State. I watched how he did it. He had an Oregon back. had an Ohio State bat. He had a Michigan back and he went to the Oregon bat. He looked at it and then he tossed it to the side the most disrespectful way possible. He had a Michigan bag. He looked at the Michigan bag and then he tossed it aside in the most disrespectful way possible. And it wasn’t because he was being an idiot, it’s because it’s for flash and entertainment. It’s supposed to be fun. I have no problem with teenage kids like having fun when they’re making their announcement of where they’re going to spend their high other college days playing football. There’s nothing wrong with that. It was great. It was great storyline. Eight, that was in the summer. That was like July or something like that.So, what’s 18 plus 12? I’m not good at math. 30. 30 months after he did that. He’s gone. Just when you are ready for all that emotional capital that you put into this player was about to pay off because you’re thinking, OK, hey, maybe there’s a job do we want for him in 2026? Hey, maybe they move Jermaine Matthews in the nickel full time in your outside corners are Devin said is an Aaron Scott. No, he’s gone and now it’s going to be Earl little Devin Sanchez and Jermaine Matthews. I’m not saying that’s a bad pairing for a house like that. I think that’s. I think that’s the right way to approach this. They chose production over potential. But if you are a fan... And we could do this with six, 17 plus all 25 guys that they’ve lost from these three recruiting classes over the last three years. You could probably do that with all of these guys. So I’m not going to go down the entire list, but it’s like, what if you didn’t have that emotional investment? Because instead of it being 25 guys you were investing in, it was 15. And it was 15 guys that you know, okay, maybe you lose two or three of them. But for the most part, all these guys are going to get on the field. because Ohio State’s approach to recruiting is what if instead of 28, we took 15? I don’t think they were wrong to take 28 this year because the reason they took 28 this year has nothing to do with what’s going on now. It’s because there wasn’t going to be a second window for the transfer portal in the spring where they could offset what they lost. So they did what they did. I don’t think that should be their approach going forward though.I think 20 is like pushing way too many people in a recruiting class. And it’s unfortunate that I’m saying that because you’re right. I think you should build through the recruiting first. High school recruiting should still matter. But whether it’s the college football playoff with Indiana, Miami, Ole Miss, Oregon to some extent, or anybody else, it doesn’t seem like it’s as fruitful when you look at what you’re getting on the back end of a lot of guys that whether it’s the program, putting financial investment in these players or its fan base is putting emotional investment or even financial investment because they’re donating to collectives and whatnot. don’t see the value of you signed 22 guys and 24 months later, half of them are already off the roster.So I will say this, I’ll give two points here because one of them goes to the thing you were talking about a minute ago. I think there’s an interesting conversation. was looking back at this because I went back. was this morning before we recorded, I was randomly pulling up recruiting classes and I looked at the 2012 recruiting class for Ohio State. They took 25 kids. And maybe this is an interesting conversation that we can dive into like deep, deep, deep dive into at a later date. Like this was Noah Spence, Adolphus Washington, Armani Reeves, Devin Bogart, Beyonce Dunn, Jamal Marcus, Joshua Perry, Cameron Williams, David Perkins, Tommy Schute. Who else was in this class? Taylor Decker was in this class. Tyvis Powell was in this class. Pat Elfline was in this class. Michael Thomas was in this class. There were lot of really good players in this class, but. I just think recruiting may have shifted from instead of a dude who shows up and you go, he’s just not it. He’s going to ride the pine for three or four years and then he’s going to, you know, maybe go on as a grad transfer when you were allowed to do that and you were allowed one transfer. You know, maybe. I kind of think. Instead of that, that system where you have a guy that, you know, I don’t, he could have played at, you know, he could have played at a certain level. He doesn’t. And he’s just a backup and a benchworer for Ohio State. I, I kind of have this suspicion that if you dig deep into a lot of these classes from before the portal existed that you were going to end up with a lot of guys who you go, maybe these hit rate miss rates from Georgia, from Alabama, from Texas, from Ohio State, from USC, from Notre Dame, from from Michigan, from all these schools. Maybe the hit rates not all that different. It’s just that the guys you miss on are now gone and the guys you miss on like. And you have to pay for them now. So why would you pay for a miss?Why would you pay for so like you mentioned you mentioned like how many of those guys like right when you started this you said how many of those guys are the sky is falling. Like I and how how many of those guys when you look at what’s going on with you know like past history where you say all right well this guy you know all this guy’s really traded up like. I don’t know. Jelani Thurman is going to North Carolina. Bryce West going to Wisconsin. CJ Hicks going to South Florida. Sam Dixon is going to South Carolina. James Peebles is going to Penn State. That’s a that’s a notable one. Aaron Scott will probably have a notable one. Quincy Porter is obviously going to Notre Dame. That’s in the ballpark. But like Eric Mensah is going to Virginia Tech. Like I I don’t think you’re losing a lot of these players and going to yourself. Wow, they’re really leaving for greener pastures. mean, greener maybe in a different sense, but They’re not leaving for massive step up in program because there really isn’t one. So that to me is interesting of this. This idea of the back half of the back halves of rosters have kind of always been what they were. You’re just losing them to a different school now. They are no longer backups on your team. They are now starters at. Maryland, they are now starters at Syracuse.But I think that’s kind of that’s what I’m getting at. There’s a it’s yeah, that’s the thing. Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, Texas, USC, when it was really rolling, that was what their advantage was, is that you get past the starters. Like, no, I still have an NFL player. Wow. Some of these middle of the road college football teams don’t have NFL players as their threes. And so, yeah, the depth of talent at some of these places isn’t the same as it used to be. So maybe you should change how you recruit. than to match that because one, you are paying for these guys. Part of the reason these guys are no longer here is, yeah, they can transfer, but also they want more money. And Ohio State has made it abundantly clear. They’re not paying guys starter level money if they’re not sure if they’re going to be a starter, but you are still investing financial capital in them, regardless of how much the money is. You are investing financial capital in these people. AndI don’t know, is it better to have loved and lost or to never loved at all? I guess, because I mean, are you freaking out that Aaron Scott’s in the portal if he never came to Ohio State?Like, fans are also freaking out because these kids are leaving. Regardless of the reason, we are explaining the reasons why they’re leaving to them, but they’re freaking out that a five-star cornerback is leaving, that a five-star wide receiver is leaving, that a top 100 cornerback is leaving, that a guy who was Angelani Thurman, who at least looks like he could be something special, is leaving. Because you invested so much into the idea that one day they could be doing it for you.It doesn’t matter where they go. I do think there is some element here of you sign a guy you want him to do well for you.No, not everybody who leaves here is going to turn into Jameson Williams at Alabama or turn into Joe Burrow at LSU. Obviously, that’s not always going to happen. More than likely, most people are going to turn into what with all due respect, what we’ve seen from Keon Gregg’s who transferred to California and it hasn’t necessarily worked out. Anyone down the list here, you can find other people who are in that same boat. But it’s just. don’t know, what if you... This is extreme thing to say. You lost 11 people in the 2024 class. What if you had just signed 11 people?Well, so I get what you’re saying, but like, I disagree because what’s the downside of taking Brock Boyd?Yeah, he does cost money. But couldn’t you also make the argument that we’re going to invest in a potential player like Brock Boyd, who three star guy, number six, three player in the class. He’s not a five star kid. He’s not, you know, one of these like, whoa, holy smokes. Like this guy’s a lock it in a round pick day one. This guy walks through the door and you think Marvin Harrison Jr. Like, blah, blah. But couldn’t you make the argument that we’ll take him, we’ll see what he is in a year or two. And if we like what we see, we will pay up to keep him because he’s been in our building. We don’t have to worry about going to get somebody else. He can, we can keep him in the building and he’ll be a third year starter for us after two years rather than like, you know what I’m saying? Like we, we, we can go to the portal and find somebody. Or we can just pay up for the guy that we have. know, Steven, I know you and I both talk to people. I think one of the things that I just like, I want to be clear with, with like people that are listening to this. It’s not, it’s not every single kid that leaves at every single school is, well, I got to get more money and I got to play. Sometimes it’s the school saying, you know, we’re, we’re going to negotiate and the numbers may be a little bit lower than what it was. And the school is saying this isn’t going to work out.Stephen Means yeah, I’m just going to be honest with you. Sure that exists, but everybody’s getting paid here. think that this idea that it’s just the school who, mean.Yeah, but I’m saying couldn’t you do that more? Like like what couldn’t you just take? Couldn’t you take a couple of kids and say, hey, we’re going to give this a year or two. And if we think you can play, we’ll pay to keep it around. And if you’re going, I mean, like how many kids do you think on Ohio State’s roster you could tell in a year or two whether they’re going to make it or not? You probably have a good indication if you’re James Lornitis, Tyler Bowen, Macareri. If you’re one of these coaches, I’m saying what’s the downside of taking those kids and saying? Hey, we think this can work, but if it doesn’t, we’ll cut ties and we’ll say, let’s go to the portal.Yeah, you are. you want to be. But I’m not saying it’s either spending on the recruiting or don’t spend at all. You want to make sure we now live in a world where you have to make sure every penny is accounted for. And there’s a return on investment. Listen, they didn’t want to lose the fame to lane. Obviously, they didn’t want to lose fame to land after a year. But once Terry Moore and Earl Little become a part of the equation, there is a chance for him to lane might walk out the door.You don’t think Ohio State like recognized that when they went and tried to get Terry Moore and Earl Little? I mean to be frank about it, they were 100 % sold that Fahim Delaney was ready to do this, they wouldn’t have brought in Terry Moore and Earl Little.you pay what it takes to keep Fahim Dillayin because you think Fahim Dillayin is future l or second round pick. And maybe he still is. I don’t want to sound like he’s not. Like maybe he still is.Yeah, nothing. Nothing is necessarily change. He might whatever he turns into, he turns into. But that’s like the point. It’s still an idea of what he might be versus Terry Moore in Earl Little or proven commodities. Devin Sanchez showed you enough. In 2025, that it’s very clear and apparent, and this is we’re saying this understanding the transfer portal is still open. I don’t think Devin Sanchez is going anywhere, but listen, there’s a lot of players in the portal. I didn’t think we’re going anywhere, so we’ll see what happens. But it appears They believed enough in what they saw from Devin Zanchez in 2025 that they think there’s a next year. Cause there’s proof of concept. I think in a world where it’s very clear that college football is shifting towards an NFL type of mindset in terms of roster construction, where your potential doesn’t matter nearly as much as your actual production. I can see a world where Ohio State takes less potential guys. where it’s okay, if in the next 24 months you can’t help us, then we can’t bring you in here versus before it was, we think you have the potential to one day start at Ohio State. Now, is everybody on the same plan? No, let’s take Dwan Jones, Paris Johnson. One needed three years, one needed two years to be a starter, right? Everybody’s on their own path to getting on the field. But when you weren’t paying guys, when you didn’t have a transfer portal, that’s as, Chaotic as it is right now when there was some level of structure even if there weren’t them things to evolve you could afford To take those guys where it’s like I might not pay off right now But it could pay off in the end Terry McLaurin is a prime example of a guy that they took based off the idea And it worked out right. He got on the field in year four and year five and he played well enough and now he’s been. I know it got weird this year. Get list with him because when he was dealing with some injuries and whatnot, but for awhile there, Terry McLaurin was like the certified unquestioned, undoubted wide receiver one of an NFL. Organization and they paid him as such. I don’t know if Ohio State can afford to take a bunch of Terry McLaurin’s anymore and I think it’s unfortunate because that’s a cool story. That’s the part.That’s part of what college football has been. It’s not just about the Garrett Wilsons. It’s about the Chris Olave, who’s a three star. It’s about all those things, but I don’t know if you can take those chances the same way because there’s a financial investment and you can’t have money sitting on the bench and not plan. You can’t have Ethan and Yawa happen again. And I feel like I’ve been saying that the last couple of days and it feels like I’m picking on Ethan and Yawa. I’m not picking on Ethan and Yawa. He’s just the most, just like red light shining on it. Example of. We invested capital into this guy thinking he was going to help us and he ended up not doing anything for us. And we can’t afford that anymore, whether it’s in the portal or through a recruiting class. Unfortunately. I think if we get structure we can get back to that world, but right now I think it’s kind of hard to see that world when. Six guys from a class who got here 12 months ago already gone and 11 guys from a class that got here 24 months ago were already gone. It’s unfortunate. It’s not the kids fault. It’s the end. It’s the adults in the room’s fault. That’s all I got on that side of things. If you’re a fan, I understand if you don’t want to like put emotional investment in guys who are committed and signing with Ohio State until they’ve actually played football.Yeah, I think that the thing I have to say I think is going to bleed into the next segment. So I think we should do that because I think that’s that’s the natural kind of stepping stone.OK, stay a break, pay some bills and come back and keep talking recruiting here on Bucket Talk. And we’re back here on Bucket Talk, Stephen Means and Andrew Gillis. We’re talking about recruiting, but not necessarily a stars build who’s in the class and those type of things right now. think that that stuff will be for a later day, though it does seem like Cortez Hankton has gotten to work with some receivers. He had like three five star recruits in the building over the weekend. So that’s a good thing. At least, you know. The five star wide receivers is still attentive to what’s going on here in Ohio State, even if Brian Hartline is going to house. It’s 2027 class right now rings third nationally with nine commitments in it. It’s headlined by Jamir Brown, the number six player, the top wide receiver in the country. And then DJ Jacobs, the number eight player, number one edge in the country as a two top 100 recruits. And then they also got Eli Johnson as a safety Brady Edmonds as a quarterback, Quentin Cypher as a linebacker, Kellen Weimer as a tackle, Brody McNeil as a tackle, Mason Wilt as a tackle and. Angelo Smith the little brother of Jeremiah Smith as a safety in the class. Here’s the other side of this questionDo we think we at Ohio State, the point I’m essentially arguing here of like, like how about we focus less on, you know, big recruiting classes, save that money and go find guys who have actually had proven production in the portal. Do we think based on the way that what we’ve seen happening in the portal right now that Ohio State is already starting to approach things that way in terms of how they might build their 27, 28 and 29 recruiting classes?I think it’s going to impact it. think there’s too much kind of smoke of like, look, man, we’re losing too many guys. And like, I will say, like, when you bring in 28 guys, maybe we should have been more clear about this and maybe we should have seen it more common. Maybe we should have seen it coming. You signed 28 freshmen. Like, I’m not I don’t mean this as like a talk down to fans thing, but like you signed 28 freshmen and then I’m assuming you guys wanted to bring in a handful of really good transfer players. So like, you bring in like eight good transfer players, that’s 36 players you bring in. I’m look, I’m not good at math, but if 36 players are coming in, there are going to be some players that need to walk out.Yeah, you needed to bring some guys needed to needed to maybe get up on out of town and that was totally fair.Yeah, I think the number is less alarming when you g glance before you look for context than the people associated with it.I think I think that’s I think that’s agreeable. I will say I think it is alarming to like look at some of these schools and be like, well, there’s been a lot of transfers out and like like Oregon. I think it’s 24 if on threes right right now. Ohio State has 28 like that. I get it like Ohio State is one of the highest, you know, transfer out teams in the country that like didn’t have a coaching change. Because like Penn State I’m right now I’m looking at 47 out and 34 in. So like coaching changes are obviously different. I think this is going to have an impact to what level I think is very important. Because what I think you cannot have is a situation where you, you kind of chase your tail a little bit because it feels like right now the narrative that everybody’s saying and a lot of our textures have said this and I’m not necessarily saying that they’re wrong, but They have kind of used Indiana as the model here. Hey, look, they’re veteran. They’re experienced. They’re portal heavy. Everybody should do that. I don’t, I don’t, I don’t agree. because what happens next year when we get to the end of the season and we get to the college football playoff and Let’s say there’s a team that was primarily built through high school recruiting. you look at Georgia is up there. Ohio State is up there. Notre Dame is up there. Like in terms of like, whoa, they have really kind of not been super portal heavy. Look at the depth that they had. Like if Ohio State had won the national championship this year. Steven, if we were on a beach in Miami right now, we’re about to be on a beach in Miami right now to cover Indiana versus Ohio State round two. And Ohio State won that game. Do you think the national perception of what happened would be? Because I think so would be. Wow, look at guys like Kaden Curry and Kenyatta Jackson and Arvel Reese.and Jermaine Matthews, guys that could have gone elsewhere, guys that could have played in different spots, and they hung around and they stayed. And the depth that Ohio State had in 2024 won them a national championship. And those guys climbing up the ranks helped win them a national championship now. So I don’t think it’s necessarily smart to do that, because what’s going to happen in a year if like a rule changes and then you’re going, OK, well, now we got to go back to high school. You know, hey, we just took 15 high school or 15 high school kids because we portaled heavy, but now we got to go back to taking 26. Like I, I think you need to stick with a plan. You can’t kind of keep moving your plan up and down and around and sideways because you think that that’s the best way to do things. I understand you need to adapt with the times and there’s a level of that. Like if I had to put my ideal Ohio state recruiting class, probably put it at like 22, 23. 24 guys depending on the year, depending on who you like. wouldn’t take as many as I did in the 2026 class kind of moving forward. So I would adjust accordingly, but I’m not completely abandoning, oh, hey, well, high school recruiting, you can only take a number of guys now. I think it’s very important for Ohio State in the next 365 days not to overcorrect.Yeah, mean, I don’t know if this is true or not, but also if you think you were going to be busy playing, you know, Miami, Georgia and Indiana and playoff games, you probably weren’t going to be all that focused on the portal when it opens. So you probably need to offset that as well. But that’s just me talking. I don’t actually know if that’s true or not. That might be true, but I think they still would have lost the number of people they lost. They would just be doing it with a ring.They would just been doing it with a ring on their finger. So I think that, sure, once you come down from the high of, wow, they did this with all these guys who stayed and they could have left, especially after that 20, 24 group, those seniors all came back and it was clear that they were going to have to spend another year in the background. Maybe they would have left. All that stuff would have been a cool and great story and a feel good story. That’s until the season ends and you have a five day portal window where your roster is open for teams for you to lose guys to the portal when Aaron Scott and Quincy Porter.Stephen Means What is going on? Freaking out about it because you’d be celebrating a national championship. But you remember how Jim Knowles right after the parade was over the news broke that he was going to Penn State like right after the parade was over. We’d have been breaking all this news of the 28 guys will house it as in the transfer portal. So I still think from a big picture standpoint, we would have gotten here to where Ohio State maybe needs to adapt its way of recruiting in terms of roster construction in terms of how many people from a recruiting state standpoint you are bringing in a year in and year out basis. Because you just invested X amount of years on a player and he’s not starting for you. He’s not even on the roster anymore. The kid from Duke is on your roster. The kid from Florida State is on your roster. The kid from Wisconsin is on your roster. No, they still needed a running back. They still need right. They brought in all these defensive linemen in the last two years and now they’re about to. They shipped them all out and they’re about to bring a bunch of defensive linemen in through via the transfer portal. They’ve already added John Walker and there’s like three or four other guys who might be coming like right. They’re trying to retain Kenyatta Jackson, but depending on what you do there, you still might be in the market for two more edge rushers and two more defensive tackles where we could look up and the only two dudes. Who were on the roster last year who are playing meaningful snaps at defensive tackle this year are Edric Houston and Will Smith Jr. and everybody else who was supposed to be a part of the future is already gone. Right. mean, JJ and Brandon Ennis are the only two receivers. If you looked at their top six, depending on what happens with Marlon Graham, only two of them are back on the roster in twenty twenty six and none of them left because of graduation and only one of them left to go to the NFL. So it’s I think there’s got to be a. I think Ohio State’s approach has been heavy recruiting, heavy recruiting, heavy recruiting, and then supplement with the portal. I think that is going to change. And it’s not just going to be heavy recruiting and supplementing the portal. It’s going to be find the best players we can in the recruiting trail and develop those guys. But every year we’re going to evaluate our roster. And if we’re looking at a guy and thinking, that’s potential. And there’s a guy in the portal who’s production, they’re going to choose the production.So if that means bringing less guys in for the recruiting trial to begin with, I hate it. It sucks. Because we’re boxing high school kids out and recycling players who are already in college. I mean, we already see it in the SEC. They just recycle the same coaches. There’s no room for new blood. And if we start doing that with the recruiting of the basketball already does this where it’s hard as a high school basketball player to go play college basketball because it’s just portal guys and then guys from Europe.Instead of 20 to 25, maybe it’s 12 to 20 guys in a recruiting class. And then you bring in eight to 15 portal guys and that’s your roster on a given year. because that way you’re paying less guys to begin with and you’re paying guys that you think can help you right now. It’s not about what they can do in 24 months. Brian Hartline said this before he left when I questioned, asked him, said, it’s great that you can help us in 24 months, but we need somebody right now. So if you’re not going to be that guy, we’re going to go find somebody else. And if that means in the process, you end up leaving, we don’t want to lose you, but we will.And I think the magic kind of number that Ohio State is going to have to settle on and like, this is a big job for Mark Pantoni. And this is a big job for Ohio State’s like evaluation staff is a bit is a big job for everybody. You’re right, Stephen. This is what the money’s for. is a big job for like every GM and talent evaluating in the country, because it’s like, you know, like Ohio State is going to have over 30 additions to the roster from 25 to 26. When you include the recruiting class, they’re already over30, they’re probably going to be closer to 40 than they are 30. When they when they when when toe meets leather when they play ball state, there will probably be 40 new players on the team from the 2025 edition. And let’s say 35 is the number every year where you have 35 new kids. Like you start to think or, you know, 30 to 35, let’s say 30 to 35. Let’s give a range. You know, I think it’s Ohio State’s job. And again, you’re right. It’s what the money’s for. You got to find if you if that’s going to be your churn every year, what’s the right churn? Is it 25 and 10 high school recruit, high school to portal? Is it 10 to 15 or 10 to 25 high school to portal? Is it 18 to 17? Like is it because there’s there’s more dynamics than just like get a good player. How does a player fit into your defense? And how does a player fit long-term plans? One of the things that people were so excited about with the Quincy Porter move for whoever was gonna get him, like it was Notre Dame, and then was, think it Auburn, and Missouri was like, he’s got multiple years of eligibility, this is great. So it’s like, are you bringing in a fifth year safety who, kind of like they’ve been doing, where it’s like, hey, this guy could have went to the NFL, but he’s not. Or are you looking at it saying, hey, this guy started as a true freshman. Let’s go get like it. There’s all of these different dynamics that are going to go into play. And it’s Ohio State’s job to figure out kind of what that equilibrium is and what they want it to be moving forward in this world of all right, if you’re to have this amount of transfers in and presumably a relatively similar number of transfers out your Ohio State, you’re to have players leave early. There’s going to be bumps in the road that maybe you didn’t expect. You’ve got to figure out what the right numbers are.Good luck with that. 614-350-3315. Two week free trial, 399. Now for that, hopefully that gave you a little bit of, I don’t know. I don’t know if it was supposed to calm you down or, know, further off the edge. was just more of a, this is what’s happening.Well, here’s thing. I don’t know if it’s supposed to call me down or not, because like, Steven, there’s like and I hope people understand this. And I know we’re saying this late, but it’s like we if I had a crystal ball and I knew the future, I would tell you what the right answer is. I’m just telling you what I think the right answer is. I absolutely could be wrong. And there’s somebody listening who could say Andrew’s absolutely wrong. And they turn out to be right. Or there’s people listening to say Andrew’s absolutely right. And Steven’s whatever. Everybody could be right or wrong about this thing because we don’t know. And that’s the tough world.Again, listen, it’s it’s Stefan. I said it on the Monday pot. We’ll say it again here. There is a plan.nerves, if you’re nervous about it or like ignite a level of hope or anything, it’s just there is a plan. And now they have to go execute that plan. And I guess we’ll see 12 months from now if that plan worked out, whether it’s in terms of how they go about building their 2027 recruiting class, how they get their 2028 and 2029 recruiting classes off the ground and everything else. And we’ll get back to a lot of those conversations. But this just felt like a moment of. I think those days of just like, this kid’s a X star player rated the number X player in the country, the number X quarterback in the country. Here’s his top five. Here’s his top 10. Here’s his business. I just think those days are probably over in terms of how to cover recruiting and how we might cover recruiting. We’ll talk about individual players and what they would bring to Ohio State as they commit and try to protect like, hey, this is how they could would fit into a house, the future if they are a part of the future.But we’re also not going to be ignorant to the idea that like, this is a new world where you get really excited about a kid come June when all those commitments start flooding in and all those visits start flooding in and make you feel like, this kid’s 100 % going to end up being a, a impact player for Ohio state. When you know, looking at what’s happening right now, 12 months after he gets here, he might be back in the portal. So we’re going to cover them. We’re going to talk about it. And we’re going to consistently try to break down and discuss the way Ohio State is going about building out its rosters on a year to year basis, because more than ever, that concept is year to year. 614-350-3315. Two weeks, we try out 399 after that. The portal is still open until Friday. We’ll be bringing you as many updates as we can as often as we can. We also have a couple NFL draft decisions that are still out there at the time that we’re recording this. So we’ll bring you those as well and literally everything else you could possibly need as an Ohio State football fan straight to your phone. You have to go looking for it. 614-350-3315 two week free trial. 399 after that for Andrew Gillis. I’m Stephen Means talk to u guys later.Stephen Means covers Ohio State football for Cleveland.com while also serving as the host of the Buckeye Talk podcast. Prior to covering the Buckeyes, he got experience working at the Akron Beacon Journal...
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