The longtime friends chat about grunge, Met Gala looks, and the myth of Sisyphus ahead of the release of Coppola’s documentary about the designer.
Sofia Coppola first met Marc Jacobs at a historic moment in his career. He had recently shown his infamous spring 1993 “grunge” collection for Perry Ellis, a high-fashion take on the flannel shirts, printed floral dresses, and knitted skullcaps dominating the Seattle music scene at the time.
The collection was panned at the time but has since been validated as an example of Jacobs’s unique ability to translate the cultural Zeitgeist to the runway. Coppola understood it immediately. “It was the first time I felt like something was being made for me, that spoke to me,” she said last week at A24’s office library in New York City. She and Jacobs sat with The Cut for a conversation ahead of the premiere ofa documentary about their friendship and Jacobs’s mysterious creative process, following him and his studio team as he designs his spring 2024 collection and stages a runway show in New York.in theaters in New York on March 20, audiences get a glimpse of a friendship that, on the surface, seems incompatible: he the often anxious designer, and she the supremely chill director. The result is an intimate portrait of an unconventional artist, one that skips over the usual beat-by-beat narrative about Jacobs’s dramatic ascent to the pinnacle of the fashion business: his influential tenure as the first creative director of Louis Vuitton to design ready-to-wear from 1997 to 2013 and the logofied empire he’s built through his namesake line and all its subcollections, most notably Marc by Marc Jacobs, which was discontinued in 2015. Over the decades, the Marc Jacobs brand has expanded and contracted and evolved in structure, but he remains New York’s most inventive and ambitious runway designer.tracks the various inspirations that drive Jacobs’s creative engines: his memories of his uptown grandmother, who was his escape from a difficult family life; the mix of musicians and actors that populated downtown New York in the 1990s; the films of Bob Fosse and Rainer Werner Fassbinder; the groundbreaking collections of Yves Saint Laurent; artists Rachel Feinstein and Robert Therrien.has no dramatic twist, no onscreen breakdown, but instead unravels what drives Jacobs back to the studio season after season, each time with no plan except to trust his unpredictable and meandering process.I was only into doing this if Sofia did it. I was fine to live the rest of my life without ever doing a documentary. I wouldn’t have cried about it. But when Sofia was willing and eager to do it, then so was I. And it was really easy. We just allowed each other to do our thing, and that was it. It was just very natural, and there was no drama.I was like, “We’re not gonna have any drama arc, but I think it’s always interesting to see a creative person’s process.” I was worried about just the pressure of doing a good job. I would have liked to see a documentary on Yves Saint Laurent by Betty Catroux or one of his friends. So I felt lucky to have this advantage, where he is comfortable, and the people in the studio know me, so I can be a fly on the wall. I remember in the past visiting Marc early on when he was preparing a show, and there were all these colors and mood boards. And then going to the final show, and it had nothing to do with that. So it was just fun being along for the ride and watching it evolve. Marc, you don’t strike me as someone who looks back often. Was it strange to do that through this project?I don’t think I deliberately look back, but I do feel the past comes up for me. Something triggers thoughts or memories of the past, and I’m good with going with that. I enjoy being reminded of things that inspired me and continue to inspire me. And I think so much of that happened with seeing the documentary.That was so great to see. It did bring me back. Then I started thinking of the characters who were around. Mike Mills and other people that were part of that scene. And the energy. I think it was a time when fashion and photography and music all felt somehow connected. Creativity, and what was happening, just felt like it permeated all the different creative fields.Kim Gordon, Rachel Feinstein, Sofia Coppola, and Marc Jacobs at a Marc Jacobs party in 2015.I appreciate that the movie doesn’t do a lot of hand-holding. Was there a version of this film that was more traditional at some point? Or was it the plan from the start that the doc would be more abstract?I knew at the beginning that I didn’t want to make a talking-heads kind of TV documentary or a news special. I wanted it to feel like hanging out with Marc and all my memories and put it all in a blender. Like a collage. There was this Bruce Weber movie called, and it mixed surfers and Diana Vreeland. That was sort of my inspiration. I wanted to incorporate all of the artists that I knew Marc was inspired by. I learned so much from him. And for younger people to know about the work of these artists that he’s drawing from and movies. Even the assistant editors, who are young women, were like, “Oh, I watchedThere’s so much conversation in fashion right now about the clients. It was refreshing that in this film, that world was not visible. How do you think about your creative process in the context of the commercial aspects of your business?At some point, I don’t know exactly what year it was, that stopped even being a conversation in my head. Like, how is this commercial, or who are we designing for? I don’t know that I ever really thought that way. My goal was to tell a story with every show, and what kind of energy, motion, spirit we wanted that show or collection to have. And then if clothes came out of that that appealed to someone, then that was a plus. Over the years, it’s become even more of that, and certainly, probably post-pandemic, it really felt to me like that’s all we need to do — make some noise and tell a story. Because there are other parts of our company or business that have to be more democratic in price, and they have to appeal to a wide range of customers. But what I have the luxury of is the freedom to just tell a story. If we make some noise, and if it does inspire people, then we’ve done a really good job with that. There’s a halo effect of thatSo it’s really changed. But I don’t think selling clothes was ever my goal. I know that’s a terrible thing to say, but it really wasn’t. I left the screening and immediately saw someone with the “Tote Bag.” There could have been a version of this documentary that referenced the empire of Marc Jacobs.I wasn’t interested in the business side of what Marc does, just more about the creative process and inspiration.: The first time I saw it, I was just kind of delighted about those references, because they do come up for me all the time.and Streisand. All of those things, they’ve been a great inspiration to me, and they continue to be. I’m in no control over it, but they do continue to trigger other things. That was a really great surprise to see that.I remember knowing that Marc’s grandmother was a big influence on him knowing about nice clothes and sophistication, and her going to Bergdorf Goodman. So then finding the clip of Barbra Streisand at Bergdorf Goodman felt like,It was fun to find still photos to re-create that world of ladies at Bonwit Teller, Bergdorf, and the ’70s teenagers.: I really feel like I lucked out. Because there are collections I like a lot less and ones that I really hate. But I really, really love that collection. It was so fluid. Even the— there were all these little bits and pieces of that particular show and collection. I probably doubted that it would ever come together, but there was something a little bit more confident, like with the Robert Therrien table. Things kept falling into place. I was particularly proud of how it all played out in the end. I’m really relieved that it was this focus of the film.Do you think that there was part of you that felt the pressure of the documentary happening and wanting it to be great? Or at this point in your career, are you immune to pressure?: Oh, no, I’m definitely not immune to it. But wanting to do this with Sofia — I was comfortable being uncomfortable in front of Sofia.: There was no makeup involved. There was no hairstylist. There was no dressing a particular way knowing Sofia was coming. I was in raggedy sweats or whatever. Nobody was orchestrating, choreographing it. Literally whatever it was, that was it.brought the camera, and he was sitting on the floor. It had a homemade feeling, which I think kept it feeling natural.: I think I’ve used that line several times. Every once in a while, we all need a reality check: This isn’tSofia, do you have a favorite Marc piece in your closet or things that you’re saving for your daughters?I save a lot of it. Luckily, my younger daughter is really into clothes. I have my gold pajamas from the Met. I have those in my closet. I have so many memories connected with Marc’s clothes.: Your Lee Radziwill look, slim T-shirt to the floor, but in bugle beads with a matching bag. It weighs 100 pounds or something. It was heavy, a lot of glass beads.Photo: Steve Eichner/WWD/Penske Media via Getty ImagesSofia and Marc at the Met Gala in 2013the other day, because there was some swatch of gold lamé, and I have gold lamé pajama pants and a dress. And he said it was made out of metal. They don’t make that lamé anymore.: No, that beautiful lamé they don’t make anymore. It was really metal, and it tarnishes a little bit, and it does all the things that fabrics don’t do anymore. Like leather for cars, they don’t absorb the oil … It’s the same kind of situation with fabrics. People don’t like that they get a patina and wear.: Certain things always catch her eye, like an antiqued diamond or crystal diamanté thing. Or a fur, or a shearling that looks like fur.Marc, you say in the film that you weren’t really fired from Perry Ellis. What’s your memory of how that happened?First of all, I’m really comfortable with the idea that I was fired. It’s very cool, and I think it is how everyone feels. But I was there after the grunge collection and did start the following collection. How I remember it is that Perry Ellis, at that time, was a lot of licensees. The only thing that wasn’t licensed was the women’s collection, which is what I put the most energy and effort into creatively. It was financed basically by the trust that Perry had set up, and it just became very, very costly. As opposed to the things that were licensed — the menswear, and the shirts, and the fragrance., as far as I knew or remembered. And that was shortly after the grunge collection. I had started on the next one. I think that decision might have been helped by the grunge.and everybody was trying to figure out who had what from that. Gabé Doppelt lent the dress that Helena Christensen wore.She said that you told her she should give it to me. Maybe it should be in the archive.Photo: Thomas Iannaccone/George Chinsee/Robert Mitra/WWD/Penske Media via Getty ImagesI just remember being really excited when I first saw it. It was the first time I felt like something was being made for me, that spoke to me. But it didn’t exist after that? According to the reporting at the time, Perry Ellis ended the designer collection to focus on the licenses, as Marc said. Your contract had come to an end, so the timing made sense. And then Perry Ellis invested in your next line.and I applied what we earned from that coming to an end to what we were doing. That’s how I remember it. But memory is a funny thing. Marc, at the end of the movie, the day after the show, you talk about how you’ve worked on being better about letting go of your anxiety or regrets about things that didn’t go exactly the way you wanted them to. You’ve been really open throughout your career about working on self-esteem and your recovery from addiction. Can you share more about how you’ve gotten to a healthier place with those feelings?poor me, I’ll never change, I’ll never get out of this, and it’ll always be that negative vortex. And that only leads to more of that thinking. So I recognize that now. If I do start a spin over all the negative things, I say,This is where you’re at. Snap out of it. Change something and move on. I accept that I am going to do that. That is my wiring. I am going to go there. What’s different now is that I do recognize what I’m doing. I give myself a certain period ofor wallowing in self-pity, or an obsession. And then, after a certain amount of days, I’m like,: It’s definitely changed. I can see that historically, that’s what my behavior was, and that behavior made my thinking a certain way. It was just this spiral, and my attitudes and my actions could change that spiral. Did you ever think you needed that pattern for your creativity? That’s something a lot of creative people worry about.: That’s the conundrum, really. Does all of that fuel, the fear and stress, part of what drives you; is that just part of the cycle? There’s that myth of Sisyphus. He’s condemned to push that boulder up the hill, time after time. But what if you looked at it as — he looks forward to pushing that boulder up the hill, time after time. And when it comes back down, and he’s got to do it again, it’s an opportunity, not that he’s been condemned to it. It’s perspective. You need that boulder to roll down the hill in order to have something to push back up. When that thinking shifts, then you can look at things in a different way.Did you consider talking more directly about your recovery in this film, or did you not want that to be part of the narrative?: I think if it came up, depending on what my mood was, I just said whatever was on my mind. But when I think,because it felt like an attempt to be deeper or something, but I don’t know that it really was. It’s just the natural thing that came out, like about my childhood or something.I never want to pry. But I also know that that’s an element of Marc and his creativity. And I’m curious too, because we all have places where our creativity comes from, or that you’re still connected to. We’re all driven by some childhood stuff that you’re trying to look at, you know? I didn’t want it to be all just fun and beauty without going too much into it.: I don’t have much of a filter. Sofia didn’t sit down with questions that would be soul-searching. It wasn’t a Diane Sawyer interview, and we didn’t see the back of Sofia’s head while she was talking to me. It wasn’t any of that.: When Sofia and Roman came to the house the day after the show, it could have been this moment. But it was just another part of the story.I loved seeing you in pajamas at home. I don’t want to do a reality TV thing of you at home, either.. That whole showing of the show, from the process to the show itself into the aftermath, that’s what it was. There wasn’t that dramatic reading of reviews, with people standing around with the reviews in the papers.she always wanted to show the down parts, the doubt, when you don’t feel like working. Showing all the real parts of it. Marc, one of the things that’s so fun about this documentary is seeing your personal style evolve. When you look back at yourself and all these stages, what do you make of your own style? Do you cringe at some of it? Or do you think,But I know what I was thinking, and it was what felt fun to me. I’ve always loved the fashion of fashion. I love it as someone who really enjoys participating, not just creating it. In shopping for it and wearing it to dinner, in having a closet arranged from light to dark. That’s why I do this.Photo: Jonas Gustavsson/The Washington Post via Getty Images: Lana Wachowski and I got matching ones because of the Sisyphus thing. We both have ourselves pushing the boulder up the hill. And it says, “I will, if you will.” Meaning, let’s just keep making stuff.I hope it’s just a little shot of energy and creativity. Inspiration to make things and to know about these artists and films that Marc’s into. I hope it brings some fun and creativity and beauty and joy in these dark times.: I just hope people enjoy it, really. That’s the thing about making work. It is difficult, and you want to share it, but it’s scary to share it. When the audience appreciates it, you think,It’s not the only reason I do it, but it’s an important part of why I do it. , a French television documentary by Loïc Prigent, was released in 2007 and follows Jacobs as he balances designing for Louis Vuitton in Paris and his namesake line in New York. In 1993, Sonic Youth’s Kim Gordon and stylist Daisy von Furth started a streetwear line, X-girl. In 1994, they staged an unsanctioned runway show on the street in Soho right after Jacobs’s show nearby. Coppola, who had her own T-shirt line then called Milk Fed, produced it with Spike Jonze. Chloë Sevigny was one of the models, and MTV covered it all forThis 1972 German film by Rainer Werner Fassbinder, about a fashion designer’s romantic relationship with a younger model, is one of Jacobs’s inspirations. Today, the Marc Jacobs brand includes hit fragrances such as Daisy, a line of handbags and ready-to-wear mostly priced under $600, and a streetwear line called Heaven. The runway collections are available at Bergdorf Goodman in the U.S. and Isetan in Japan.Some of the looks in the collection featured oversize pins with printed images of jeweled brooches, inspired by Elizabeth Taylor’s collection.In the documentary, Jacobs is choosing between belts and asks his staff for ones that don’t look “’90s Milanese.”Jacobs was hired at Perry Ellis in 1988, two years after the founder died from an AIDS-related illness, to reinvigorate the business. In February 1993, the company announced a restructuring of several lines, including closing the collection line that Jacobs oversaw.Pieces from the grunge collection were part of the Costume Institute’s 2009 exhibition, “The Model As Muse: Embodying Fashion.”When he was a student at Parsons, Jacobs created his first ever commercial pieces, a line of sweaters that were exclusively sold at Charivari.Jacobs borrows this phrase from friend Lana Wachowski to describe the feeling of sadness that comes after finishing a collection. Wachowski, the co-writer and co-director of the22 Best Sneakers in Every Single StyleShe told Jimmy Kimmel that “many people have been fooled” by AI images of her and Tom Holland getting married.The Women DIY-ing Their Weight-Loss Drugs More people are using GLP-1’s the way they do Botox: They decide how much to take and when — and hope for the best. Why Are People Mad at the Lipstick Lesbians?Do Not Shove Teyana TaylorThe politically outspoken actor wasn’t at the Oscars to accept his award in person, apparently because he was traveling.Matthieu Blazy’s new collection is seducing not just VICs but also first-time shoppers willing to wait hours for $1,500 slingbacks.New York
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