Sam Worthington at Jake Sully in Avatar: Fire and Ash
It’s probably fair to say Sam Worthington doesn’t love doing interviews. So, two things about that: first, that makes him a normal human being. Second, when I said this to him directly, he said that wasn’t quite accurate, but he does have a visceral reaction to it, and he feels overwhelmed.
Again, this also seems in the realm of “normal human being” behavior, but I feel safe standing by my original statement. Now, granted, this is a “normal human being” who, as I type, just happens to be the star of two of the three highest-grossing films of all time, Avatar and Avatar: The Way of Water. So, regardless, here he is, talking to me. In Avatar: Fire and Ash, Worthington reprises his role of Jake Sully from the previous two films. It does feel pretty silly to give a synopsis here of who Jake Sully is, considering more people have seen these movies than any other movies in recent history. But, as you remember, Jake, once a human and now a Na’vi, led a successful battle against the “sky people” while on the run with Neytiri and their children. In the latest installment, Jake is once again hunted by Colonel Miles Quaritch , who has now teamed up with a truly sinister Na’vi named Varang , the leader of the Mangkwan clan, who has a pretty strong fetish for fire. Ahead, Sam Worthington tells us everything you need to know about Jake Sully and the filming of the last two Avatar films – which were filmed at the same time, where one day, it might be a scene for The Way of Water, and the next, it might be Fire and Ash. And he gives us an update on what he knows so far about the fourth and fifth films that James Cameron has kind of hedged on a bit in recent months, wanting to wait to see how Fire and Ash does first. And Worthington explains, for a guy like him, who clearly does not like being the center of attention, how the Avatar films are the perfect blockbuster for him to still be able to keep some of his privacy – but that doesn’t mean he’s not recognized as Jake Sully, which does still happen quite a lot.Actually, we’ve met before. I interviewed you for Wrath of the Titans. I saw Avatar: Fire and Ash yesterday. After it ended, my body felt like it had to recalibrate to Earth after being on Pandora for over three hours. Do you have the same reaction? Or is it more, “Well, I remember filming that scene”? Worthington: No, no, I get that feeling, because it's definitely immersive. I think that's one of James's gifts. He dreamt this world and has employed all these artists to bring it to life. And the more we do in these sagas, the more detailed and rich these environments are getting. So I think that he utilizes that big screen to definitely do that, to take you out of your everyday and transport you. I’ve seen the behind-the-scenes shots. When you’re filming, are you ever like, “How on earth is this going to look like that?” I’ve been on movie sets, but this is just a different level… Worthington: Well, it is. When we film them, even though we're in the empty gray space we call the volume, we have the references, the art references on hand at the time.Worthington: Jim isn't a very secretive director with his cast. He's very open. So not only do we see the world that we're about to do the scene in, but because of the luxury of the virtual camera, he can put this camera that he created around the space that we're going to inhabit and play in. And we can see it straight away on monitors around the room. And that really helps, because now we know where we are – whether in the water, in the forest, what part of Pandora we're on. Whether we're up in the trees or down in the Metkayina clan at all, and it's real time. So I can wave, and my blue avatar can wave back, you know what I mean? In real time.Worthington: Now, by doing that, we can then build this gray space we need in order to interact. So we need those references to give us the details in order to make our performances true. So when did you actually film this one? Because The Way of Water and Fire and Ash were filmed at the same time, right? But some of it was filmed later? I’m trying to get the timeline straight.Worthington: When I read it, it was like one film. That's what it was. And because Jim, I believe he's the master of structure, he didn't want to kind of just cut it and dismantle it. He said, “I'm going to separate them so they belong in the same world." These two movies are basically the continuation, part one, part two, you could call it. But I think we started that in 2017? And we were filming them concurrently, not back to back. We filmed them at the same time. So one day you do The Way of Water, then you flip to Fire and Ash.James Cameron Will Just Call Up Sam Worthington When He Has New Ideas to Film Worthington: I think the first block, we filmed for about 18 months of performance capture. And then they would have done another 18 months or so of live action. And then the way we kind of work is that stuff's getting rendered, Jim will also have some creative ideas. We got split up by COVID in 2020. But Jim's way of working, I’m like I'm a doctor on call. Because he'll just phone me up after I've done another job and say,"Hey man, I hear you're free. I've got a really cool idea. My creative juices have been flowing." Wait, really? You’ll be working on something else, and he’ll just call up and say, “Let’s film some more scenes”? Worthington: Yeah, he'll go,"Do you want to come back and play more? I've got some cool ideas." Or,"I've thought of something." Or,"I need a bit more something to add to what we've done." So it's not reshoots. It's actually just…Worthington: Yeah! He's continually painting and painting, which that's fantastic to be a part of. And I jump. When the boss says"Go," let's go, because I love filming there. So I'll go down, and we'll just throw out ideas and do what we do. And that goes all the way up until this year, or whenever, we're kind of controlled by the rendering. So I think maybe last year was probably the last time we did that because it wouldn't have had time to render. But it's a great process because he's always creating and massaging this story that he cares about. It's not like a conventional film in that way. When we last spoke, because it’s my job, I was already asking,"Hey, what's up with Avatar 2? When's that coming out?"And that was 2013. I’m guessing neither of us realized that was still nine years away. When you were back on set for both the second and the third film, were you like, I can’t believe we are finally doing this?I know. I get you’re more of a “I put my head down and do the work” kind of actor, but come on? Not even a little? Worthington: It’s more when he sent me the scripts. Well, he phoned me up and said,"I've got an idea of how to increase the saga, this family saga." Because there was no talk of a sequel on the first one. It was just standalone. We didn't realize it would connect that much. So we weren't arrogant enough to think we would make sequels. To be fair, James Cameron came out fairly quickly after the first film did so well and said there would be more. So that obviously fueled anticipation. Worthington: I guess. I guess because he likes the characters more than just the business side of it. That's how Jim operates. And I think what he gave me, and what he presented when he talked to me, was almost like a novel. It was this novel of the progression of this love story that we started in number one. And the progression was, well, “love story becomes a family.” They have kids, then we'll challenge that family. And then it keeps going and going. So when we started, I know the whole kind of saga that Jim has in his head and that he wants to eventually try to get to. And then you just dive in. It's not a case of kind of going,"Wow, isn't this incredible?" It's a case of,"I really hope we can tell that story because that story rocks." And that's what's different from other movies I've done. Other movies I've done that have had sequels? They're thinking of the sequel to try and emulate the success that the first one had. Jim doesn't operate that way. He literally created this world out of his dreams. And he's creating this story because he believes this is his way that he can tell and discuss the themes that he wants to discuss. Sam Worthington Says Working With James Cameron Spoils Actors I saw a quote from Jack Champion, after he did Scream VI, alluding to how shocked he was how non-Avatar movies are made, meaning basically every other movie. Worthington: I always believe Jim spoils you! I did Avatar when I was… I'd done movies leading up to Avatar, but once I did that, I was like 33 when it came out. Yeah, I was spoiled. I was broke for every other film. And people say to you,"Can we do the Avatar experience?" I go,"The one thing that we had more than anything is time and Jim allows time." It's such an actor-centric way of filming this performance capture. He does his camera and all the VFX much later. The bulk of it is us actors acting scenes with a director who's sitting right next to me, giving me ideas, giving me different challenges. And when you're on a conventional film set, the director's more worried about the shot, the dolly, the closeup, the sun, the extras. So we're very privileged that we've got a director that's generous with his time. And I don't know if you pay attention to online chatter, and I'm going to guess you don't. But in 2022, leading up to the release of The Way of Water, there were a lot of thinkpieces saying Avatar doesn’t have a cultural footprint. I’m not seeing those this time around. Related James Cameron Has The Perfect Advice for Any Filmmaker Who Wants To Use AI The 'Avatar: Fire and Ash' director speaks up about his film technology and his movie length.Worthington: I remember someone asked me that on The Way of Water press tour, and I was told,"Well, no one talks about it.” I said,"Well, no one knew anything about Avatar 1!” It wasn't coming from an IP! It was just out of this guy's head! And I said,"It didn't seem to stop that." If a story's good and you can tell when a movie is done by someone's heart – and if it's technically savvy and he's pushing the envelope of what this medium can do – I think hopefully that attracts an audience. And then, as I said, if the story's right and the characters are true, then that will hopefully connect with the audience. But that's the alchemy of great movies. It's hard to replicate, and it's hard to try to figure out the formula. Well, speaking of replicating, for 10 years, studios tried to replicate Avatar's 3D experience and no one could do it. Clash of the Titans was one that happened right after… Worthington: I was in the one with the greatest 3D experience, and I did that movie, which had probably the worst 3D experience. I think that movie gave me an aneurysm when I watched it because the 3D was put on after. The movie wasn't designed for it. And I think it was then retrofitted because they leaned into 3D being a gimmick. Jim created 3D cameras. He built them himself. He understands the stereoscopic world probably better than anyone, and he doesn't see it as a gimmick. He sees it as a tool that he can use as a director to immerse an audience in the world that he creates. That's how he sees it and that's how he uses it. And, look, I do obviously love the theatrical experience. But I also see movies in nice screening rooms with no one talking or on their phones. So I do get why audiences don’t always love going. But with Avatar, you truly can’t recreate it at home. It is its own experience.You're on Pandora. I’m just looking around at stuff half the time. Worthington: When I was a kid, I remember I saw E.T. on the big screen. It transported me. And I saw Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom on the big screen, and it transported me. That was my first Indiana Jones movie in a theater. And it also freaked me out for my entire life, so there’s that too…Worthington: That's exactly right. We have a horrific scene and child slave labor. A seven-year-old kid could walk up and say,"One ticket, please." And they're like,"Here you go, kid." Worthington: Yeah! I always remember them eating the monkey brains and cutting the snake! But I think with those movies, they're done by a powerful director who understands the magic of cinema. And that's also Jim. That's what his movies demand. I remember seeing Titanic on the big screen. I was in one of the cheap seats down the very front, and it felt like the iceberg was hitting me…Worthington: True, so with the neckbreaker seats then. I've seen that movie on the TV, too, but I still remember being swept away by that story on the big screen. And that's what Jim designs his movies for. Even Though He's Blue, People Recognize Sam Worthington as Jake Sully Everywhere I’ve always wondered this about you. If you’re ever in a bad mood, do you just say to yourself, “I’m the star of two of the three highest-grossing films of all time?” I’d say that to myself all the time.Do kids recognize you on the street? “Hey, you’re Jake Sully!” I get you’re a Na’vi in the most recent two films, but you are yourself for a good portion of the first film… Worthington: Look, it's interesting. I think my temperament as a person, this blockbuster really kind of suits a guy like me. Because of that, I get a lot of anonymity because of it, which is good for a person. As I said, good for a guy like me who gets a bit intimidated by being the center of attention.Worthington: It’s not that I don’t love... it’s that I have a visceral effect to it.Worthington: It's quite overwhelming. But, that being said, it's interesting how many people do recognize you and do come up and go,"Hey man, you're in that movie. You're the blue Jake Sully in the Avatar movie, aren't you?" And that's a lot of people. And I can go anywhere in the world, and you can get through customs easier.Worthington: You can meet anyone! In Indonesia. I've been in the weirdest places in Africa and stuff. And someone has seen and experienced that movie and hears my voice and can hear Jake Sully or see a mannerism that I do that they've obviously recognized that. Because it is my performance, 100 percent, animated on. And that's it. And everything is protected. Every part of us is protected. So yeah, certain smiles that I do, some guy will recognize or catch some and go,"I know that dude from somewhere." And just because you're blue, it doesn't necessarily mean that the anonymity holds. Look at Zoe. Zoe's been blue in the whole saga. She was always recognizable even way before she got as super famous as she is now.Worthington: Yeah. So I do think it's people pick up on the spirit, that's what they see, or just certain things that we do that they recognize from the movie. There are always stories about the crazy thing an actor had to do on an Avatar set. What was that for you? Worthington: Well, anything with the water is hard. Water is three times harder. That's just a given on a film set, maybe even 10 times harder when we're going under it. And then I go to another film set, and you're doing conventional marks and all this other stuff, and nothing compares to that. I love working with Jim just because each day is a challenge. We're always problem-solving. That's how we make these movies. We're solving the problems of how to bring this world alive. And Jim, he doesn't settle. He doesn't just say,"Yeah, that will do." We just keep pushing and pushing. And if we don't get it, we'll go and do it the next day until we get it to the point where we know we're extremely setting that bar high. So it's not one or two things, because we film these things for so long. James Cameron has wavered a little on the fourth and fifth films. He seems to be saying, “We’ll see how this one does,” right now… Worthington: I think that's a reasonable thing. Jim's not an arrogant man. He tells the story. If it connects, and we're lucky to continue the saga, I think that's what he's trying to get at. Have you actually filmed anything for four or five? I don't know if any of that was filmed as part of these last two?Worthington: Yeah, because they were younger and then, I don't think I'm talking out of school, that movie does jump ahead in time. But, same thing. It's a creative process with Jim. I know that he will probably still write on it and tinker on it, and when he's ready to rock, he'll call us. But I don't think he's saying that for any other reason than he's just coming off this one, and that's his focus. His focus is this film. Avatar: Fire and Ash Like Follow Followed Science Fiction Adventure Fantasy Release Date December 19, 2025 Runtime 195 Minutes Director James Cameron 7 Images Close Cast See All Writers Amanda Silver, Rick Jaffa, James Cameron Producers Jon Landau, James Cameron Prequel Avatar, Avatar: The Way of Water Franchise Avatar Genres Science Fiction, Adventure, Fantasy Powered by Expand Collapse
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